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To say that yours, out of all of them, is the true one is so presumptuous its unbelievable!
"But then the Bible says to true seekers of God, it is our responsibility to spread the word and inform others of true religion (Matt. 28:19-20)."
WHOOOÒOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! DING DING DING!!! DO WE HAVE A WINNER!? YES WE DOOOOOOOOO!
I am an anti theist. Therefore, I say to that:
FUCK OFF WITH YOUR RELIGIOUS BULLSHIT.
"How shall we f__k off, oh Lord?" ("LIfe of Brian")
And this is where it becomes obvious that it is a con, Hawk Flint. If god himself cannot persuade me then what hope do you think you have? The very act of thinking you can con people into believing in something that you yourself have no evidence for is just another example of your arrogance.
What a perfect con it is too. You know why nobody ever shows up at the Catholic church and tells them they are lying? Because they're DEAD! DUH!
You only come to visit us atheists to re-affirm your faith. You need non-believers to give purpose to your con, otherwise, you'd just be a dufus that is conned into believing you have to convince others. That's how the con perpetuates. So continue to tell us how conned you are, we won't stop laughing, but we won't accept your con either.
So, Gabriel, what happens, according to the rules of your faith, to those who do not embrace the same tenets that you do?
Hawk Flint, same question to you.
According to the Bible, even so-called believers, anyone who doesn't properly understand and apply the Bible correctly will punished by God. Jesus said, "Not everyone that says unto me Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, BUT they that do the will of the Father. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, didn't we do many mighty works in your name. Then the Lord will say to them, Depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matt. 7:21-23). So you see, everyone will be held to the same standard of correctly knowing and doing, even believers. So it's not "my faith" that matters, it's what is known and practiced.
OK, so. Non believer. Military. Always did what was right. Sacrifices his life for his country. What's his fate?
Now we enter into a discussion of an objective standard of right and wrong. Because in order to define what is right and wrong, it can never be left to us, because this would naturally takes us into the realm of subjectivism. And if subjectivism rules, then who is to say what is right and wrong? We must first determine what is objectively right and wrong, and find its source. And then secondly, once it is found and we are maintaining it, then can our actions of life mean for something and our death not being in vain. In other words, we must be doing what God commands completely and then what we do in life will account for something.
"In other words, we must be doing what God commands completely and then what we do in life will account for something."
Sounds like sour milk to me.
If my premise begins with a Creator, then logically we must be doing what our Maker commands of me. This is no sour milk, this is objectivity, which I am thankful for. Can't imagine a world where everyone made up their own rules in life and might makes right. Everything in life demonstrates the importance of objective rules and order.
"If my premise begins with a Creator,"
Haven't you been saying that you HAVEN'T started with a creator in mind this entire time?
"So, Gabriel, what happens, according to the rules of your faith, to those who do not embrace the same tenets that you do?"
Dunno. Nothing I guess. But the truths (get it, not myths?) of Christ, repentance, obedience, and a bunch of stuff that is required to enter heaven, must be the same. Otherwise we get Catholics, who worship a virgin Mary, who is NO LONGER A VIRGIN!!! This is idolatry, and there will only be punishment, unless there is repentance.
"get it, not myths?"
Nope. Still myths.
Gabriel - "Things aren't more ordered from this definition, but things behave differently from one item to another, because they aren't the same. A rock is different from a human being and its structures aren't the same, but both move through a systematic arrangement."
It seems you are saying that everything is ordered (and has the same amount of order); this makes the term "ordered" completely meaningless. If I understood you incorrectly, could you please give an example of something that is more ordered than something else?
I don't know what answer you are looking for? I believe I have answered your question. Everything is ordered in life from its cellular level. A rock is rock because of the ordered particles to make it a rock; likewise, a person is ordered because of the ordered particles to make it a human being. Now, both are vastly different, but they both have systematic arrangement. I don't know how to be any clearer than this.
"A rock is rock because of the ordered particles to make it a rock; likewise, a person is ordered because of the ordered particles to make it a human being."
Actually, it goes:
Atoms
Molecules
Amino acids
Proteins
Cells
Tissues
Organs
Organ systems.
Yes!! All these work in an orderly fashion - systematic arrangement. That's what I've been saying. These are all synergistic.
"These are all synergistic"
Indeed. But that doesn't require a god.
As I've been asking, then give an alternative suggestion? What is responsible for matter behaving in an orderly fashion other than the one I've suggested?
Nothing is inherently "responsible". There is no need for an alternative. Randomness alone can explain this.
Gabriel - "I believe I have answered your question."
You haven't even started. If you claim everything is equally ordered, then the term ordered means absolutely nothing. You might as well tell us that everything is equally "hyperfloobieized". These statements have no information content; and no way to examine the truthfulness of them. You keep asking us how to explain how order came from randomness, but this is impossible, since we don't know what the fuck you mean by ordered. I'm 100% serious; I don't have a clue what you mean. For example:
Today, The Pragmatic and I were briefing discussing different strategies of how to maintain the order of a 1 dimensional array. We both know what ordered means in this context, we wanted the elements of the array to maintain their location in the array. But this does not seem to be how you are using the word. Then you tell us everything is already equally ordered! Can you please think about how that doesn't tell us anything, and clearly has nothing to do with how the word is normally used?
"I don't know" is unacceptable because it doesn't get us anywhere in this discussion. First, it is an easy out in discussing things and doesn't force us to advocate for a position. Why not contribute to a discussion by postulating something? And second, if we don't know, then why do we argue against other positions? If we don't know, then those that are least postulating something should be the only ones able to comment.
Gabriel,
"I don't know." is often the only HONEST answer! Apparently you would have us speculate irresponsibly. If the only way you can get somewhere in a discussion is by reckless speculation, then maybe you should give it a rest. "...if we don't know, then why do we argue against other positions?" Because those positions have obvious errors! You don't have to know the answers to life's riddles to rule out Donald Duck as the answer! Seems to me that you need a serious refresher course in basic logic and reasoning.
Once again, show my error in my deduction? I have not advocated for anything foolish, like aliens, multi-universe, or any other nonsensical position, I've adovacted for(consistently) that MIND is responsible for our existence. You keep bringing up stupid things like Donald Duck. Quit doing this! I'm serious in this discussion. If you have something serious to offer that counters my argument, then give it? Quit trying to make light of this situation.
"I have not advocated for anything foolish, like aliens, multi-universe, or any other nonsensical position,"
No, your right. To house my pupils term, your position is follish.
Lossely defined as: "Foolishness through faith or following."
Gentlemen,
Your comments concerning the Bible teachings are erroneous. They are regurgitations of popular Christian doctrine that doesn't support the true understanding of God's will. While the Bible does teach that Christ was sacrificed for us, it doesn't mean it in the way that many in the religious people believe and the way you are referencing, it teaches how Christ came to show us how to live life effectively, even under the great pressures of life (Phil. 2:7-8). In other words, CHRIST taught us was that life could be dominated and conquered even when going through tough times. Everyone is responsible for their own lives, and Christ showed that anyone could conquer life if they set their mind to do so. This makes sense and the reason why God (Jesus) took on the form of flesh and blood (Heb. 2:14) to demonstrate to us, when many people believe that life can't be dominated in this body, that it is possible to overcome this life as human beings. God created us to be great (Eccl. 7:29), and not, as some have advocated that we are sinful by nature. The Bible teaches that when we are born, we are born pure and innocent, our mental faculties being void of knowledge between good and evil (Rom.9:11; Deut. 1:39). It is not until we're taught that our minds become filled with knowledge and then when we grow, it is our responsibility to confirm the knowledge we've been given.
THE BIBLE MEANS NOTHING HERE! HAVEN'T YOU REALIZED THAT YET?!
Hey Xavier, maybe I should quote a dictionary, because according to you - a dictionary is ALWAYS right! Really?! Xavier, anyone reading this forum can tell that you are from the peanut gallery and really haven't offered any serious dialogue. Maybe it's time for you to go somewhere else and get with your friends to insult us.
Yes, and I suppose your made up definitions are better. Give me a break. Your a nutter!
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