"Could, but how often does it?"

Often, in the animal kingdom. We now have almost hit a record low in marriage rates, even with gay marriage being legal. Also, as far as longevity is concerned, around 53% of heterosexual marriages end in a divorce. We don't have the numbers on homosexual marriages yet, just to be clear, I wasn't leaving them out to be an ass. We are a society whose structure is shifting away from a family-oriented paradigm, and toward single parenthood and hook-up culture. If the sociological studies done on the issues are any indicator, we are headed for a dark time indeed. Gay marriages, and the families created by it, may wind up being the most stable relationships in our society.

"There are so many examples where it hasn't of course. Sorta like pulling a bandaid of quickly, eh?"

We'll see, but it doesn't look like it at all, I'm afraid.

"I concur. I mentioned it because understanding how something got to be the way it is frequently assists in choosing a more efficient way forward."

Sometimes, but at times it is also a millstone around the neck. There are a number of cases where the way forward is blocked by people clinging to tightly to a past that no longer exists. This is true across almost all spectrum's.

"Couldn't agree more...with those laws in place, we can focus on what is damaging but not specifically against any laws."

I can generally agree, but need specific examples. For if we aren't talking about creating new laws, addressing such "damages" becomes more a civil than a legal matter. In a system that fluid, success in redressing damages is hardly a guarantee.

"But just because something is illegal, certainly doesn't mean it won't happen."

If only. It does make it a bit easier to deal with, however.

"I've been discriminated against in the workplace. It was illegal. It still happened. It has happened multiple times...some overt, some insidious. Perusing it takes a multitude of tolls that many people are simply unable or unwilling to endure and is too often unsuccessful."

I can't really comment on it, not knowing about it, but it does happen. I'm not sure what can be done to fix it completely.

"I agree. I don't focus on only one thing either. I personally don't have any allergies to identifying as, among other things, feminist."

It isn't an allergy, it is a separation, I don't want to be grouped with radicals that use their nonsense to hurt and destroy other people. That is part of what convinced me religion was wrong in the first place.

"I disagree. Feminism hasn't, some people have. I agree that there are people identifying as feminist who are quite radical. I am not convinced that most are. To assert all feminists are anything in particular seems to me to be equal to saying "all atheists are (fill in the blank)". It's just not true. I've been fortunate perhaps...every person with whom I am affiliated who identifies as feminist would not say anything akin to "all men are (fill in the blank)" because they don't think that."

If there were a large minority of atheist running around and acting like "radical feminists" do, I would call myself something besides and atheist to. I have the right of association, or disassociation as it were, if I don't want to be associated with a group with a vocal minority doing terrible things in the name of their beliefs or lack thereof.

"Well, based on that, my opinion is that those people were silly."

I live in a town with three universities, they are the majority here.

"How to deal with them? I'd probably find myself chuckling, shaking my head, and walking away."

At least two men were arrested for it in New York, and it is a $50 dollar fine on the MTA. Shake your head and walk away from that.

"I have no argument with that. My point was that there are people who do indeed say 'always', it's their opinion and more often raw emotion. I'm finding that in other posts by other posters in this string."

Probably, I am not one big on emotional arguments, myself.

"My husband is wider than me too...my fault, I'm the cook and make a mean sweet & sour brisket."

I cook about half of the time, but our difference is due to me being 6'3" and her being 5'5". She barely comes up to my sternum.

"In the end, Travis, I don't think we disagree on all that much..."

Perhaps not, but I think a conversation across the aisle needs to occur, because it seems to me that people tend to get half rabid on this topic. I am a human rights advocate, and have often discussed and wrote about both mens and womens rights, at different times. As a human rights advocate, I find myself often at odds with ideological feminists, because they tend to be the ones resisting things like battered mens shelters and more equitable family courts by abolishing the outdated and one-sided Duluth Model. I have personally received death threats I am not allowed to talk about specifically because of investigations, and threats against my family as well. I cannot recall a single time I received any such threat while working to keep my community planned parenthood open.

I'm sorry, I just can't see them as you seem to.