Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Log in or create an account to join the discussions on the Atheist Republic forums.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
FREE E-BOOKS
Get the book "Why There Is No God" and one more book for FREE!
Sign up below for the Atheist Republic Newsletter to get the books.
Record Your Message!
Record your voice here for it to be aired on the Atheist Republic Voicemails Podcast.
Send us your views and opinions, your personal stories, messages of support, comments on recent news, or any comments you would like to share about your part of the world.
Note : By clicking record you are allowing us to broadcast your message on any of our platforms.
Affiliate Disclaimer
Links to atheist related books, shirts and movies and other atheism related products are affiliate links.
All proceeds will go to keeping the Atheist Republic website up and running; providing resources, advocacy, community tools and encouragement to atheists all over the world.
Welcome to AR Vince!
All Atheism is a lack of belief in god or gods.
If there is no god, then there is no creator.
Chicken's evolved from another bird is my best guess.
Chicken's lay eggs like all birds do.
The peacock does not lay eggs. But then again neither do roosters.
(Most people when talking about peacocks they are referring to the males) Obviously male birds do not lay eggs (so not all birds lay eggs.)
A little bit of literal humour in a serious thread :)
Chickens evolved from another bird. Ok There had to be the first bird. How did it happen?
Some of the comments on this thread give me the impression that in general atheists admit to not knowing how the universe came into existence from nothing. And also that God definitely did not create the universe. This idea that some atheists have that atheism is a lack of belief in God does not seem to be coherent with this view because in order to know that God cannot be the cause of the universe one must believe He does not exist.
Why do you assume the universe came into existence from nothing?
AJ777, some folks designated as atheist do indeed say there is no theistic god(s) - they are frequently referred to as gnostic atheists. Others are agnostic atheists...”I don’t believe in any gods and I do not know for sure if any actually exist or not”.
It serves nothing and no one to assume “all” of any designation behaves/thinks in a particular way.
@AJ777
Following CyberLN's comment: I'm an atheist and am often lazy in the way I speak about the existence of God. I'm not proud of that. I'll say things like "God didn't create the universe." But what I mean is "I see no evidence that a god created the universe so I don't think that happened, but there's a remote possibility that it did." Some of us use a sort of shorthand to communicate our stance, which doesn't fully communicate or acknowledge that we cannot be certain. Though of course there are those that *do* claim to know.
Similarly, I don't believe that we are all simply characters in a game that some advanced human/alien child is playing, like The Sims. Though, honestly, I would say that in my estimation, that is more likely than the universe having been created by God. But who knows! Maybe *both* of those things are true.
@AJ777
Ugh... *heavy sigh*.... As the wise Yoda might say, "Mmm... Special you are."
Re: "....give me the impression that in general atheists admit to not knowing how the universe came into existence from nothing."
Uh, "in general" atheists simply DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD/GODS. However, WHY a person does not believe varies greatly and is unique/personal to the individual. Moreover, what that individual does or does not believe about the beginning of the universe and/or life has NOTHING TO DO with atheism. May I recommend you go seek professional help for your severe memory disorder? Because I KNOW you have been told this multiple times already. At the very least, dude, take notes or something. Geeeeeeez! Oh, and by the way, what is "Nothing", if I may ask? Would you be so kind as to define that? And along those same lines, from where did your god spring forth?
Re: "And also that God definitely did not create the universe. This idea that some atheists have that atheism is a lack of belief in God does not seem to be coherent with this view because in order to know that God cannot be the cause of the universe one must believe He does not exist."
Well..... Damn.... *rubbing eyes in disbelief*.... If I had not read this myself I would not believe it. You, sir, are an over-achiever. I have already recently commended the "merit" of an earlier post you made regarding beliefs. At that time it was hands-down the most absurd thing I have ever read. However, I sit here now and am forced to admit this latest comment has far surpassed that earlier nonsensical remark. Congratulations, good sir. I totally underestimated your abilities. I honestly didn't think you had it in you, and I humbly admit that you have proven me wrong. And this time I will make it clear that you truly deserve an award for your achievement.... *removing hat and bowing respectfully*...
@AJ777,
If you assert that everything has to come from nothing, then you must also apply the same logic to your god.
So how did you god come into existence from nothing?
You can't simply say your god has always existed. That's defining your god into existence.
If you say your god is not a thing, then you would be correct.
Where in the hell did you get the idea that the universe came into existence from nothing. How stupid are you? I mean seriously, how can you hang around this site for weeks at a time and learn absolutely nothing. At the very least you should be googling some of the comments to check their validity.
What god are you referring to? No one can tell you if your god is the creator of the universe without you first defining it. What atheists assert is that you HAVE NOT PROVED YOUR GOD DID IT. If you could prove it, we would all agree. We may not worship the murdering bastard but we would all agree he created the universe.
"To believe God could not be the cause of the universe, one must believe he does not exist."
No. This is your bullshit dualistic crap asserting horseshit once again. I can know for a fact that your god did not create the universe based on your definition of that god. Most definitions of Christian gods are self contradictory. These gods do not exist by the very nature of their definitions. So when you define your god, we can then assess if it is real or not. Lacking reality, it is possible to say "it does not exist" at least not as you have described it. And, if it does not exist, it could not possibly have created the universe.
"God can not be the cause of the universe one must believe He does not exist" WRONG AGAIN
God could exist and something else could have created the universe. God could have created another universe that eventually created this universe. All you have to do is prove your god exists. WELL...…..?
Hi Vince, it might help you if you don't think in absolutes. Like "if it's not blank THEN IT MUST BE blank"
Like when you said "If there was no creation, then the first chicken did not come out of an egg"
This is not only highly erroneous, but it leaves no room for other possibilities. If you take away anything from this thread, I hope you remember that a lot of Atheists like myself do not fill in the blanks of a mystery with god. We are perfectly fine with admitting what we don't know and will seek to find answers that can be found with empirical evidence.
"If there was no creation, then the first chicken did not come out of an egg"
Declaring my statement erroneous without explanation is not useful. Explain how it's erroneous.
You're right, but that was just an icebreaker.
Chickens as we know them today had more than one species of ancestor all of which layed eggs. The evidence is not only genetic, but in bone structure and feather fossils to name a few. Compare this to humans, our ancestors are cro magnons, Neanderthals, etc.
So yes your statement was erroneous because genetic mutations occur frequently in organic life and when those mutations provide an advantage in a creatures environment, the said creature has a higher survival rate and will spread it's genes, thus spreading the result of that mutation to the new generation. Imagine this happening generation after generation for hundreds of thousands of years. The first chicken as we know it today certainly did hatch from an egg without God and creation. We have proof that we can see and touch. This isn't some testimony. This is real.
The first chicken hatched from an egg that had previously mutated form something else and you can see and touch the proof?
What is it that you feel and touch?
I didn't think I had to quantify that any further but... You can see and touch fossils. Fossil evidence is physical. Physical evidence can be observed with human senses such as sight and touch. Anything else?
So you have seen a fossil that proves that the first chicken hatched from an egg that had previously mutated from something else.
That was my question that you evaded.
If there was no creation, then god did not come out of a planet. And I have two questions about that:
1. How did god come to be?
2. Why, and how, did god start laying planets?
Funny. Got a point?
Oh boy, I will break it down for you.
If you ever applied the level of scrutiny and understanding you demand from scientific facts to religious claims, you will see that it is indeed FUNNY.
If God created everything, then someone has to create God, and so on. And if God is the uncaused cause (whatever that means), and you somehow make your peace with it, you could do the same with our universe.
Case closed.
You just made that up.
I haven't demanded any scientific facts. I haven't even tried to convince anyone God is real.
I have asked simple questions that I thought you guys would knock out of the park, but I haven't gotten any explanations at all. Just sarcasm, insults, "go read up" "there is lots of proof".
Does anyone understand the proof well enough to try to express it?
Not so far. How about you?
@Vince Re: "I have asked simple questions that I thought you guys would knock out of the park..."
Soooooo..... If your questions are oh-so-simple, then WHY - pray tell - are you here asking US for the answers??? Shouldn't you already know? Or, at the very least, you could go to a site where there are EXPERTS ON THOSE SUBJECTS who could provide answers with far more accuracy than most anybody on here can. However, considering you have already been told this multiple times, I'm beginning to think even the experts would be wasting their time with you. Because it has become glaringly apparent you have the attention span and memory capacity of a hummingbird fart.
Nice evasion.
My questions are for atheists. So I came to where the atheists are.
I think there is no answer for my questions but I'm giving you guys a chance to prove me wrong.
So far, you haven't. I just keep getting sarcasm and insults like yours. I'm beginning to think that's all you have.
You asked for my point. That was it.
You will ask questions - some will answer - you will provide some rebuttal - some will debate that - you will debate back - at the end of the day, you will arrive at a conclusion about God. At that point consider this,
The reason you are getting all those responses is because you aren't here to learn, but to debate. If you do want to learn, then a debate room in an atheist forum is not the best place to start asking these "simple" questions.
I'm here to debate? Yeah, no kidding. It's a debate room.
My question is for an atheist. Where better to ask it?
Hi Vince:
It's really difficult to begin a conversation when you start off with suppositions and assertions that just aren't true. The assertion that atheists believe gods do not exist is just not true. This is a position the religious force upon us. It is called a "straw man" argument.
The god hypothesis is a non-falsifiable hypothesis. That means it can not be proved wrong. (This is not the case depending on your definition of god. Some gods, by their very definition can not be real just as a square can not be a circle.) Theists make this assertion of Atheists because it makes their belief in God seem more valid. "You can't prove god does not exist."
It is not the atheist's job to disprove your (theist) claims. It is the theist's job to prove their claims to be true. The Theists are the ones making the claim that this thing called God is real and that it exists. All atheism does is ask them to prove it. Failing that proof, there appears to be no reason at all to believe in god or gods. Thousands of religions with thousands of gods and thousands of arguments for the existence of those gods have been failing to meet their burden of proof for thousands of years. In short, there are no good reasons to believe in a God or gods. (This says nothing at all about whether or not they exist.)
To determine if your god exists, you will have to define it. You will have to share exactly what you believe and why. The reason theists make the claim "Atheists do not believe in gods." Is not because of the brilliance of our arguments, but rather, the complete lack of sensibility of their own arguments. This has been true for 6000 years. No theist has proved their case for a God. That is the simple fact of the matter.
This is what is confusing. God exists or God does not exist. We can agree on this I hope. These are two different propositions. Each position requires facts and evidence to support it. If I say, God does not exist, I am making a reality claim and I must prove it. That is why I said, before we begin, I need to know all about the god you are claiming to exist. I can not tell you whether or not it exists without first knowing about it. If your god is all merciful and just, then it does not exist. Mercy is the suspension of justice and a God can not be both. These are self contradictory concepts. Most Gods that have been described by theists are self contradictory. Others just aren't there and so it really does not matter if they exist or not.
Atheism is the lack of belief in God or God's. (While it may be true that atheists do not believe in some gods, it all depends on the god you are talking about. )
Look at it this way. If I tell you that the number of stars in the sky are even, will you believe me? (God exists) Have I counted each and every one? How would I know such a thing? Obviously I can not know how many stars are in the sky so you are justified in "not believing my claim." Does that mean I have asserted the number of stars in the sky are odd? (God does not exist.) Of course not. The number of stars may very well be odd. The number may actually be even as well. How will we find out and shouldn't we suspend judgment until we actually do find out? What good is it running about asserting the number is even (god exists) when we actually do not know.
Atheism, simply put, is the acceptance of the fact that we do not know. Indeed it is also the rejection of some gods asserted to be true by some religions. This is only because those religions have not met their burden of proof. They are running about screaming "EVEN" (God is real) without evidence to support their claim. Hope this helps.
Atheism and Evolution are mutually inclusive.
Evolution is a biological process (in the same way growing old is a biological process).
We as a "species" blindly evolve as one team/herd/nation/race.
You as an individual/unit/child within the team/herd/nation/race do not personally decide whether you evolve, don't evolve, what you evolved from, or what you will evolve into (you're forced to follow the blind crowd whether you want to or not) - somebody/something else decides for you on your behalf so you have no choice other than to comply by following the crowd and being just like everybody else.
This biological process began with the "Big Bang" which was unplanned and random and came into existence without choice (it had no choice but to exist).
Evolution has no roadmap, plan, goal, or end game.
Evolution is a heartless random chaotic process which only offers one choice: failure (unless you're 'lucky').
Creation, the opposite of evolution, says everything comes into existence and came into existence by choice because somebody cared.
And that failure itself is a creation created by choice - we're problem solvers so we require problems in our lives to solve to have a purpose. If we had no problems in our lives we would have no problems to solve and we would have no purpose.
Evolution doesn't have a purpose other than evolving into "who knows what" so even evolution has a purpose.
If you lived in a universe were there were no rules there would be still one rule, "thou shall have no rules".
Where did that one rule come from?
Holy Shit - This is the longest string of stupid ass assertions I have heard in a long time. Even if I replied, I suspect the writer of the OP to be illiterate or at the very least incapable of thought beyond the level of Chimpanzee.
1. Atheism has nothing to do with evolution. Atheism is lack of belief in God or gods. Nothing more.
2. Species do not blindly evolve. (You know not a thing about evolution.)
3. There is no choice in the evolutionary process. (WRONG BANANA BREATH). How do you think we got all the breeds of dogs. They were intentionally created by men. How did you get those nice ripe bananas in the stores. Again created by men.
"All modern day dog breeds were created by man through selective breeding. However all the members of the canid family that we see in the wild were not created by man. These include: Wolves, Foxes, wild dogs, dingos, jackals etc."
https://www.bing.com/search?q=dog+breeds+created+by+humans&form=EDGEAR&q...
5. The biological process did not begin with the Big Bang. The Big Bang is the theory of the expansion of the universe. It has nothing at all to do with evolution.
6. Evolution has no goal! Congratulations, you got one right - unless the goal is to perpetuate life. Even so, that is a poor goal as there are many more dead things than living things. No Goal seems to be correct.
7. Failure unless you adapt would be a better interpretation. Failure to adapt is failure to thrive.
8. Creation is not the opposite of evolution. Evolution is a scientific theory backed by facts and evidence. Creationism is not even a viable hypothesis. There are no facts or evidence supporting the idea of creationism.
9. Problems? No idea what you are talking about.
10: Evolution has a purpose - Prove It. (Previously responded to - see above.)
11. How moronic can you get. If we lived in a universe with one rule "thou shall have no rules." Then it would be in a universe with ONE RULE. Is this really difficult for you to understand?
12. In a universe with no rules, that one rule would not exist. What do you mean "where did it come from?" If it was a universe with one rule, someone obviously made it up or discovered it. Why would it be any more significant than water freezing at 0 degrees C?
You're saying that we as a species evolve through a process and that process doesn't care and has no goal or purpose.
But for some reason we do care and we have goals.
So we contradict the biological process we evolve through/from/to - we're opposed to evolution.
And for some reason we're playing world warcraft, dancing, voting, smoking, watching Game of Thrones, singing, instead of evolving.
Why?
Caring slows down the evolutionary process so it makes sense for evolution not to care about those things if it's sole purpose is to evolve.
Why do you care Cognostic? Where did that unique bit of you come from?
Why would evolution care by customising you when evolution can't care?
Have you ever stopped to think that maybe you're proof of creation so there is no need for scientific evidence?
That you caring and you being unique is all the proof you need?
Are you sure we are not evolving?
Pages