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There is no contemporary evidence for an historical Jesus, and as others have pointed out, you are also missing the point, is it deliberate?
1. Do you believe the bible is the infallible inerrant word of god?
2. If you do, then you must believe that the cruel and barbaric practice of human slavery is morally justifiable.
Otherwise please explain Exodus 21, and the fact that the bible claims Jesus's foremost disciple endorses slavery.
Sheldon, I thought I answered you already but maybe not, I apologize if I didn't. I don't believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God. I find inspiration many parts but other parts I can only take as cautionary tales of people doing things wrong. I thought I replied already, but maybe it was to someone else that I see the Old Testament as a collection of thousands of years of books about the plight of a people trying to seek God, and they got a whole lot of what people did wrong documented in there. I find 66 books gathered together there that I can get a lot of good out of, but I don't agree it is infallible.
Maybe sometime I'll find the post in the snarl of a thread it has become.
I don't believe slavery to be justifiable. As far as Peter's epistle to that church, you'll have to ask him. I don't agree, I wasn't there to know what was going through his head when he wrote it.
@ Homer
"I already said I don't believe Jesus said that about slavery."
Jesus' most famous uttering was his "Sermon on the Mount", described in the Gospel of Matthew.
Matthew 5:18 (KJV)
"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."
There is no spin to this passage, jesus stated that he would uphold and follow the old Abrahamic laws from the old testament. And those old testament laws even described how to own and treat slaves.
He did not state "slavery is bad", but instead fully supported the laws that allowed slavery.
@David and Homer...
Another gem from the sermon on the mount
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell[e] of fire. “
At least now I know why I’m going! You fool David, you fuckin’ fool!
Sounds harsh!
@Whitefire13: What's really interesting about the "You Fool" comment is that when you go to hell, you are going to find yourself in some really interesting company.
Matthew 5:22 "Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire."
Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."
Matthew 23;17 Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes it sacred?
Luke 11:40 You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also?
Jesus should be there waiting for you....... unless of course he was lying or just never existed at all.
...ooohhh Cog.....I like it!!!! It’s the same place his father is (you know the father of lies)....
Maybe god’s real name is .... drumroll.....Loki
Too bad CNN or FOX wasn't there to ask questions after the sermon:
"Steve of Galilee here, when you said 'not one jot or tittle' do you really mean to uphold slavery too?"
"Wow I'm glad you asked that Steve, let me clarify for someone 2000 years from now who will take a microscope to the words and try to find some sort of issue with it..."
Homer... god doesn’t like to be asked questions or to be questioned... that’s why there’s no “outside” news reports.
He kinda leans towards thought crime too. IMO makes for a shitty “leader”.
I would probably have to plead the fifth or throw myself on the mercy of the court on the thought crimes!
@ Homer
"Steve of Galilee here, when you said 'not one jot or tittle' do you really mean to uphold slavery too?"
"Wow I'm glad you asked that Steve, let me clarify for someone 2000 years from now who will take a microscope to the words and try to find some sort of issue with it..."
A "jot or tittle" means a very small amount. In other words, nothing, no exceptions, will be changed Is that so hard to understand?
I am not putting anything under a microscope. My statement is based on a passage from the bible. Any decent theist who has read and studied the bible is VERY aware of what was really said on the Sermon of the Mount.
You stated that jesus was not pro slavery, I provide a bible passage that proved otherwise.
You believed in a lie, I exposed that lie.
Good for you, if that satisfies you as proof, then run with it. People plays with the words to make it out to be that the whole Bible has Jesus laid out from the beginning to the end to be absolutely proved to be God himself, and I'm not so sure of that. I guess others will look at the words and consider Jesus was pro slavery because he said jot and tittle when referring to the law. I'm not that kind of person either way in how I look at what I am reading. I guess I suck as a theist. Somebody better kick my ass out of theism!
Holy shit Homer!
Your “mind” is all over the place! Where-else is David suppose to get his answer from?!?! As far as I’m aware YOU said you follow Jesus’ teachings and “pick” some from elsewhere (like the fruits). You haven’t once answered any points I brought up to you and you get all “huffy and puffy” with David because he’s using a book to describe a character in the book!
Jesus Christ already...no one can, will or should “kick you out of theism”.
BUT if you make claims, back them up already. Otherwise you’re just another person with an opinion (like assholes, everyone’s got one) worth shit. If your looking for “confirmation” talk to other Jesus lovers that have shitloads of testimony to back their claims too.
I don't feel huffy, lol. I don't see that as any kind of proof of an endorsement of slavery though. It reminds me of how many take pieces said in one place by anyone and tie it to another and infer meaning. Lol I'll work on my tone. I apologize David.
And I'll answer your points, sorry.
@Homer
Have you ever thought about why your god set up this universe and then decided to hide so that it required "faith" to believe in him? Why is that the test that determines whether or not a person deserves eternal joy or eternal pain? Does that make any sense to you at all? It doesn't to me.
If I was God and I'm all alone in reality and I want to create beings to commune with, why do I then hide from them and require unevidenced belief? I wouldn't do it that way. I'd be out front making myself known to all, lay down a coherent law and go from there. There would not be thousands of different god versions people believed in because it would not be an open question of whether god exists or not or who he/she/zhe is.
My ego would not entail me to require "worship" or "sacrifice". Quite frankly, I would be a far better god than the one you proclaim belief in, and that alone means your god is no where near the perfect being you think it is.
I'm not sure I've made all the claims you are speaking of about God. I don't know if God is any sort of perfect being.
@ Homer
"I'm not sure I've made all the claims you are speaking of about God. I don't know if God is any sort of perfect being."
In fact, we could take it further, and I am comfortable stating that "if there was a god as described in the bible, he was a complete incompetent psychopathic, manipluative asshole.
His instruction book (the bible) is a mess, and fails to convey any clear message. That is why there are over 30,000 different sects of christianity. One day our sun will expand and consume this planet. God is a poor planner. He decides to wipe out humanity with the great flood just because he had a bad hair day. He lies to Abraham and directs him to kill his son Isaac, just for a prank.
And you lean on this incompetent to provide fruit? Have you ever considered that this god is an asshole playing with you? One day deep depression, one day angst, next day fruit.
I would not drink water from a sewer, yet you are taking fruit from a known psychopathic homicidal asshole god.
@Homer - who have said over and over that you have "faith". Why is that faith required?
The faith gives me access to the spiritual gifts. If I ever get the chance to know how that works, I'll report on it.
ROTFLMAO
Pssssst NewSkeptic (the gifts are human qualities and traits that most of us use on a daily basis)
I bought a load of FRUIT in Tesco yesterday, my fruit has increased, no belief in any deity was needed though, just a credit card.
How much did it increase?
Exactly 5 bananas, a dozen tangerines, and 6 apples.
How much is that in "smiley faces"?
I can't find any objective point of reference to convert it sorry. Maybe Homer knows?
The guy wanted me to try to quantify joy to apparently get to some end I wanted him to hurry up and get to, so I gave him a joyometer and smiley face graphs to try and get there.
He still didn't get there.
Oh I don't want you to do that; you elected to do that all on your own when you said you had more. I was just curious how you would claim to have done it.
-------------------------------------
Wait; are you now saying you weren't serious when you said you were using the "smiley faces"?
@Nyarlathotep: I love it when you start getting witty! Just cracks me up!
The smiley faces were the best I could come up with to express having more of something like joy and patience. It seems to be something you require when someone expresses having more of something like that, and I'm trying to accommodate that odd request.
And feel free to use that in all aspects of your life when I'm sure you must be asking of others that express similar things, for example:
If mama Nyarlathotep says "Son, I'm so much happier now that you are coming out of the basement and are looking for a job!". You can give her one of those smiley face charts so she can help you comprehend her assertion!
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