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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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@Sheldon
"Homer, can you demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity?"
Don't hold your breath, I tried that already. .All I got in return was an attempt to use Plato's cave allegory as proof for the existence of god.
I'm sure answering a question with another question is taught in apologetics 101, but it won't work here, at least on me.
Still bored with Homer.
So far, there is no proof for the existence of god. The apologists we get here have usually lacked either the intelligence and/ or intellectual honesty to admit it.
Outlining one's theistic beliefs may make one feel all warm and fuzzy. Unfortunately there are only five arguments for the existence of god, and we've heard them all, many times.
Speaking for myself, it gets really tedious. I have neither the patience nor respect for the ignorance and hubris of the believer who comes to an atheist site and sprays drivel over everyone.
But then I'm a cranky old man who doesn't suffer fools. There some here are who will bother.
Addendum; I stand corrected. that pretty much ends the discussion.
@Homer: It validates my belief because it works for me. I'm not asking anyone to believe like I do
Fair enough. That position aligns with my own view that gods only exist in the minds of believers and have no existence in the world of objective reality.
So are the prisoners in Plato's cave theists or atheists?
That's the trick about the cave isn't it? I feel I've escaped and found these fruits. You think I'm delusional.
@Homer ...” I feel I've escaped and found these fruits.”
Now isn’t that special (church lady voice)
“Found fruits” ...call them what they are! Empathetic human qualities. Congratulations for discovering them!
WOW
@ Homer
So we have your alleged experience. You act and feel better for your belief, that you admit, you cannot explain.
Good for you. The end.
When I was a little kid, I had an imaginary friend I named Filbert. And whenever Filbert was around, I felt happy and safe and he kept me out of trouble. Sure, I could be a little happy without Filbert, but Filbert made me feel REALLY happy. And I wasn't TOTALLY a bad boy without Filbert, but my Mom and friends said I was always much nicer when I had Filbert around. So I decided I was a much better person by believing in Filbert, because I could speak with Filbert and he would guide me to making better decisions in my life. I even tried living my life by not believing in Filbert for awhile. I noticed I always felt miserable, and I would act like a big dick toward other people.
Heck, I even tried believing in other imaginary friends a few times. Larry was "okay", but his advice just did not make me feel as happy. And then there was Mary Jane for awhile, but she gave off a strange vibe that made me feel paranoid. So I just decided to go back to believing in Filbert to help me in being a good person.
Oh, and I know Filbert works because I always felt better WITH Filbert than I did without Filbert. And that is my proof that my imaginary friend Filbert is real. And I don't expect anybody else to believe me, because Filbert will make you feel better ONLY if you believe he will. Have you ever tried comparing your life WITH Filbert with your life WITHOUT Filbert?
Edit to add: Um, just in case, for those who may not have caught on, I did NOT really have such an imaginary friend as a kid. His real name was actually George. I just used the name "Filbert" to protect George's identity.... *look of realization*.... Aw, shit.... *hand over mouth real quick*... Um, forget I said that.
I'm happy you and Filbert are doing so well. God's working for me just fine.
@Homer Re: "I'm happy you and Filbert are doing so well."
Fuck, Filbert! That back-stabbing imaginary bastard ran off with Mary Jane. Turns out they have been seeing each other behind my back for several years, even though they both claimed not to know each other during all that time. And even though I am pissed at both of them, I have to admit it is probably for the best. While packing up all his imaginary stuff in the imaginary room he stayed in at my house, I found his diary. Being the nosy asshole that I am, I naturally started reading some of it. Imagine my surprise when I found out some of the fucked up shit Filbert believed. (That one section on how to properly use shellfish was particularly disturbing..... *shudder*...) Anyway, good riddance to him AND that paranoid-schizo Mary Jane.
@Tin-Man
"When I was a little kid, I had an imaginary friend I named Filbert"
Snap
I'd forgotten, Mum told me about the imaginary friend I had when I was about 4. His name was Mr Bailey.Apparently Mr Bailey got blamed whenever I did anything untoward, such as chucking my grandad's tools into the rain water barrel .
Then I turned five, and got a new imaginary friend called Jesus. Kids will believe anything an adult tells them . Some outgrow this tendency. Many do not. . They are known by many names. 'Christians' is one.
Looks like you are trying to have your cake (claim it is subjective), and eat it too (declare an objective mathematical relation between the situations):
I guess one could try to objectify that by calling more and less some sort of measure, I'm just not sure how I can quantify it beyond that. My measure would be subjective... At least I think. I don't want to understood by anyone that I'm trying to say this is something I can prove so I'm saying my experience is subjective here. I just wish to share what I personally can't deny in my experience.
.
Attachments
Attach Image/Video?:
@HOMER: I personally can't deny in my experience. Your experience has nothing at all to do with what you attribute your experience to. You have had no experience at all that is in any way unique. All you have done is rounded up your experiences and attributed them to a God. You experience NOTHING that atheists do not also experience. NOTHING!
Good for you! I'm glad it's working so well for you. Not sure how you got in and had my experience though, but it's sure a neat trick!
Homer “ Not sure how you got in and had my experience though”
Referring to Cog ...shared human experiences
“Isn’t that special” (church lady voice)
Another attempt to have your cake and eat it too: measurements are objective. Seems like a pattern.
I'm highly skeptical that you have made these measurements you have referred too.
If the measure is more or less, and that's considered objective without some joyometer, then call it objective. I'm claiming I have more of this when I believe than when I don't. I considered that subjective.
Let me not eat the cake not have it, I don't really care. I'm just trying to convey my experience.
Homer your avatar, Osgood Fielding III from "Some Like It Hot" is most appropriate. Osgood is a happy man floating through a world full of death and danger totally focused on blissful notions and completely oblivious to the reality that his faith in the woman for whom he has declared his undying love, is actually a man.
"Well no-one's perfect." Osgood shrugs. Unlike Osgood I care about my truths.
I tried Yahweh, Yeshua, and Bible for a very long time. In the end I found it all too conveniently contrived to be real. I escaped my Platonic cave to discover a ineffably glorious and harsh natural universe populated with meaningful opportunities for tangible truths, beauty and happiness, which I strive to maintain by being true to myself, constantly aware of its pitiless indifference.
And strange as it might seem to you, it makes me far happier to engage in this reality than in the 'perfect' myths and comforts of fables.
Good luck.
I'm not sure I'm that far from you. I do find most of what religion has to offer as contrived. I just can't shake the God part when God, Yahweh, Allah, whatever one calls him is still there providing the Fruit when I pray in faith. I also think Jesus had some great lessons in humanity no matter what one believes about him.
If that stops, then I'll be right with you all. Funny thing is, it just doesn't stop.
It seems you are using measure, more, less, objective, and subjective; in unusual and self contradictory ways; to get the results you want. Dirty pool, imo.
-----------------------------------
Your trying to have your cake and eat it too; isn't helping. Your continued "unintentional" capitalization of the word fruit doesn't help either.
Please work with me on how I should be using the words here to just convey what I'm trying say. I do get more fruit when I believe, when I have faith. I don't want to play dirty pool, and I don't want to have my cake and eat it too. I just want to share what I am experiencing.
With an atheist forum, and without being able to demonstrate any objective evidence to support it.
It doesn't really leave much to debate you must admit. And while it is axiomatic that your subjective experience is meaningless to us, even were we to accept it is accurate, and as I've pointed out several times, what one experiences emotionally from a belief, doesn't remotely validate that belief.
Why is it important that an atheist forum be told what you believe, to what end, if you have nothing to support it but bare assertion?
My assertion seems to have generated quite a bit of discussion. I thought that was the point of a discussion forum. I thought it would spark some conversation.
I guess this could be a forum of just atheists talking to each other about their views on theists. The registration asked me if I was a theist, and what kind of theist I was. That lead me to believe a theist's view was encouraged.
I would love to see a theist that has something other than bare assertion.
@ Homer
Good luck with that,Homer. Most of us on this site, I would wager, have been waiting for the same thing....to no avail.
You all trot in here with assertions, claims, some claiming authority from various books and texts, some with fallacies, but none, not one with anything but bare, threadbare, claims.
You have had a personal experience of something.
Woot. *applauds*
Eric the Unicorn lives in my garage. I know because I have personal experience of his rainbow farts. Its written in my second cousins diary from what my Mum told him so it must be true.
Indeed your view is welcome. You have had a personal, unshared, unevidenced experience of "something".
Excellent. You have explained it. Now, go away, you have nothing left to offer.
(Edit spelling and grammar)
How much more?
@Nyarlathotep: He certainly gets more fruity. I'll vouch for that!
You know those little smiley faces that they use to measure "how are you feeling today"?
Without faith and receiving the fruit, I am on the realm of the little bit better than a flat smiley face in the qualities encompassed by fruit, still a smile though.
With faith and the fruit it brings, I'm usually in the big smiley face in those aspects.
@ Homer
"Without faith and receiving the fruit, I am on the realm of the little bit better than a flat smiley face in the qualities encompassed by fruit, still a smile though."
Such vague and squishy parameters. Please try to drag yourself out of the land of comforting babble and deal with reality. Take a test to measure your emotional state.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/tests/health/happiness-test
https://www.psychologies.co.uk/test-what-makes-you-happy
Because right now dude, you are not yourself, you are a machine that repeats the babble that has been going in your ears for decades. You really need to get in touch with your inner self because you don't know what you are with this religion clogging your veins.
Fun test!
I think there might be just a bit of bias on your part towards someone who can bare the roots of their faith and freely talk:
According to your responses, you are generally the type of person who believes in the goodness of humankind. You give nearly everyone the benefit of the doubt (at least until proven wrong), and will often accept what people say and do at face value instead of making conjectures about their motives. You will at least try to find the good in even the most difficult of people, and are willing to place your faith in others. Unlike their more positive counterparts, pessimists have a lot of difficulty trusting others, believing that most, if not all people have hidden agendas. Tempered with that necessary dose of skepticism, your fairly trusting and accepting nature is refreshing, and likely provides you with a much more balanced and upbeat perspective overall.
@ Homer
I am an optimist because life is good. But I am not a fool. I am now retired, have seen a lot of shit, and done a lot too. From bar fights to dealing with the mean streets, I can state "been there, done that". I have been conned so if I need to be skeptical or even cynical, it can be turned on quicker than a light switch. And if that happens, no one wants to be in the same room as me.
Most people are good, and everyone deserves a second chance. The history of mankind is one of never giving up, always striving to improve, and doing the right thing. Yes, I definitely have a lot of faith in the human condition, or ability to deal with hardships and change.
But only if the person is willing to face change. I worked for one organization for twenty years (expecting to retire there), and in 1996 everyone (over 2,000 people) were informed we would be shutting down. I faced it head-on, kept plugging away, and improved my condition by getting a much better paying job and nicer work conditions. Some of my friends could not deal with the change, they drank themselves to death, moved back into mom's basement, or just did the hermit thing, lived under a rock. All of those personal examples are 100% true.
What got me to a better position? I did it all myself. I busted my ass, worked insanely long and hard hours, and made sure my work was of meticulous gold-plated "training manual" standards. I did it all myself, I believed in myself, I did not need a god or prayer.
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