When did your belief begin?
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Yup
Protestant, of course! I should have known. Thanks for filling in the details, John.
I was raised in a Baptist/Methodist family. One of the earliest memories I have of attending any type of church is when I was maybe four or five years old. Just a couple of "snap-shot" images in my mind, really. Not much more. It wasn't until I was about eight or nine years old that I recall any real specifics about church and Sunday school and Vacation Bible School. It was also about that time I started noticing how differently adults acted in church than they did during other times when they were not around the church or church events. And I suppose you could say I was a bit smarter than the average kid during those days. (Well, maybe not "smarter", but I was able to learn things at a faster pace than normal.) I had gotten tested in school and they wanted to advance me a year ahead a couple of times. My Mom would not let them, though. (And, knowing the things I know now, I am glad she wouldn't allow it.) Anyway, as a result of my "enhanced" learning abilities (and the fact that I loved to read during my younger years), my reading comprehension skills were pretty good, I suppose, especially for my age. And I guess maybe that is why so many of the stories they taught us in Sunday school and why so many of the sermons preached during regular services never made much sense to me. Simply too many contradictions and inconsistencies, even from the perspective of my young and impressionable little brain. Nevertheless, I was also raised to be obedient and respectful toward my elders (whether they were family or not). Therefore, naturally, I trusted the ones that I knew loved and cared about me, and I just went along with the program in the hopes that one day it would all make sense to me. Along the way, of course, it was always-always-always drilled into my skull that, "God is good. God is mysterious. God is perfect. God is all-forgiving. God loves you no matter who you are or what you do. But.... YOU MUST FEAR GOD. And if you do not believe in Jesus, GOD WILL SEND YOU TO HELL." Add to that the whole concept of, "The Devil is bad. The Devil lies. Satan is evil and will make you question God and will make you have doubts about God. If you have doubts about God or question anything about Him, that is only Satan trying to lead you astray. If you have doubts, you are allowing Satan to control you and you are making God unhappy." Needless to say, when you have every adult you know and care about pounding these things into your head as a kid over and over and over during the course of all of the formative years of your life, some of that shit tends to stick around in the ol' noggin' a bit. Regardless of how little any of it makes sense to you.
During those early days, church was pretty much every single Sunday morning, with very few exceptions. Night services were often attended, also. And every now and then we would go to a Wednesday evening service depending on the whims of the adults. Then there was the Vacation Bible School for a couple of weeks straight during the early summer. And all during that time, the more I learned in church and the more advanced I became in school, the less and less the church stuff made sense. But, still, respect and trust the adults.... (despite the fact many answers they provided to tough questions were less than mind-blowing). By the time I reached my teen years, my church attendance had trickled down to holiday events and a few random Sundays scattered throughout the year. Otherwise, I was just busy being a teenager and trying to figure out life, and being the big brother in helping my Mom with my younger brother and sister while my Mom worked two or three different minimum wage/part-time jobs just to put food on the table.
Fast-forward to adulthood and out on my own making my own way in the world. Not much thought about church due to just trying to live paycheck to paycheck. Then I had about a one or two year period where I dove head first back into the deep end of the religion pool after exiting a horrendous marriage that should have never happened. And that caused me to spiral down to a point where I felt I had nowhere else to go. However, after getting past the emotional trauma and regaining some amount of my rational thought, those same old feelings of, "This stuff just doesn't make sense," finally caught back up with me. At that point, my attendance starting dropping, and after my work hours and off days changed, I managed to break away again. Nevertheless, the whole threat of Satan and hell still managed to maintain its hold over my conscious and subconscious. It was ALWAYS there in some form or fashion. And it remained there in my mind like that for several decades, constantly causing me to doubt/fret/worry and second-guess myself about almost anything and everything I ever did, good or bad.
Then, about seven years ago, I met my wife. She was a yoga instructor at the time and was incredibly knowledgeable about the bible and several other different religions, especially Paganism. Because of her, I started learning about things I had never known existed and she helped me dispel many false perceptions about Paganism and other religions. And then my Mom died a little over a year and a half ago. She was really the last thing that kept me tied to religion, because it just seemed wrong and disrespectful of me to fully push it aside while she was alive. (Didn't fully realize that until several months after her death.) Those two main things, along with several other minor details and events along the way, were what caused me to finally be able to fully break away from the religion nonsense and completely free my mind from that insidious grasp that Satan and Hell had on me for all those years. And it is one of the most liberating feelings I have ever had in my life. And I would be wrong in not giving credit to many of you here on the AR for helping through some of my rough spots along the way. Plus, the knowledge I have gained here these past several months has been priceless. A big "Thank You" to everybody out there. (And, yes, even to John and a couple of our other regular theists. *grin*)
@ Tin-Man (and all others)
Damn, Tin-Man, your time with the church when you were a child was idyllic compared to mine. Then again I was purposefully disrespectful (by only asking legitimate questions) to the "authority" of my elders and to the church.
That is where I lost respect for any of my elders until they proved to be worthy of respect. As me dad once said when he finally decided to stop punishing me, "I am not going to punish him for asking a perfectly legitimate question just because the Pastor cannot answer it." He further went on how it is disrespectful for punishing a child for asking such questions no religious person can or will not answer. I think it was here I began subconsciously knowing my parents were headed for divorce. However, just like Algebe said elsewhere, parents should remain together for the sake of the children because even being in a loveless marriage is nothing compared to destroying a child's world. My parents did stay together until the last of us moved out, then they divorced. And one has to truly love their parents for them to do that.
My first recollections are way different. Sunday School was the fire and brimstone of "you are condemned to Hell forever unless you believe in Jesus." And I still cannot look at that name and NOT pronounce it Hey-soos. I had a friend named Jesus. Then that same Sunday Sermon was based on "You are condemned to Hell forever unless you do as WE say." NOT on what Hey-soos says, or god says, or the Bible says, but WE say. Arrogant prick. That is when I lost ALL respect for any of my "elders" unless they proved worthy. Yes, I was taught like you to be respectful, but I re-interpreted that to mean "be respectful, but I do not have to respect them."
And then when the physical abuse and torture, and psychological terrorism began, well … , my elders, especially religious elders, proved they were nothing but a bunch of megalomaniacal psychotic sociopaths. Thus, before I was even in First Grade I was completely against religion as a whole. ANY religion. Of course, the three years of Star Trek helped tremendously. Mr. Spock being my hero.
Me dad even told me once I decided not to go to church after my Age of Minority to explain why could not understand or belief in the Bible and its religion, "Your mind and brain are just like a computer. If it is not logical or rational, it does not compute." And that made more sense to me than any other explanation I have ever heard.
Again, I am ranting. Let me stop before I overload the server...
rmfr
P.S. — @ Tin-Man: Hey if your wife and my wife could have been sisters, can I clone your wife? LOL.
@Arakish Re: "Damn, Tin-Man, your time with the church when you were a child was idyllic compared to mine."
Yeah, probably even better than most others' I have seen here. I definitely didn't suffer any physical abuse the way you did. Actually - oddly enough - despite how dedicated and faithful most of my family was, I was always encouraged to learn and think for myself. No doubt that also played a big part in why none of the religious stuff made sense to me.
@Arakish Re: "Hey if your wife and my wife could have been sisters, can I clone your wife? LOL."
(Sorry. Don't know how I missed that earlier.)
Sure! You can clone her. Just as long as I'm not held liable for any damages that may occur as a result of said cloning. She is stubbornly independent and can be quite a handful at times, but it keeps life interesting, at least. Oh, and she has a pretty good right hook. lol.... Hmmmm.... *scratching chin*.... Yeah, you would definitely have to sign a waiver.
@ Tin-Man Re: Mean Right Hook
So did my wife. And a temper to boot. Until I broke it.
During the first five or six years of our marriage, my wife had a wicked temper. Not to say I didn’t have one, just that her’s made mine look calm. It could be set off at the slightest happenstance. I kept trying to convince her that she needed to learn how to control that temper, “or it’s going to give you a heart attack.”
How I finally broke her temper is really funny. We were eating supper one night when one of our daughters reached to get something and knocked her glass of milk over, spilling it across the table. I looked at my wife and could see she was going to go off like Mt. St. Helens. I nonchalantly reached up and purposefully tipped my glass of milk over. Hmmm… Perhaps not the best thing to do with an impending volcanic eruption. However, before she could react, I said, “She knocked her glass over by accident. I did it on purpose. Now what?” For quite a few seconds my wife steamed, then, suddenly, she smiled, and burst out laughing. She literally did a ROFLMAO maneuver.
After this incident, her temper was tempered, so to say. Of course, I had to clean up the mess…
See, I have a very inventive and creative way of doing things...
rmfr
@Arakish
Good one! lol Fortunately, my lady is very even tempered. Hell, even more so than I am at times. At the same time, however, she is also incredibly cunning.... and calculating.... and patient..... with a very long memory. One helluva combination. (Imagine a python with a highly developed brain and intellect.) And whenever she does decide to "strike", it is most often with pinpoint accuracy. I absolutely LOVE it. *beaming smile*
@ Tin-Man
Dude you are still just describing my wife. Hell, most of the time I always said she was smarter than I hoped to be. All I ever admitted to was her comment on me being "a walking encyclopedia of a plethora of useless factoids." Basically her way of saying I had more knowledge while I said she had more intelligence. My wife had the uncanny ability of getting me to do things I would NEVER do, yet make me think it was my idea. Talk about cunning.
rmfr
@Arakish
She describes me as being tactical, while she is strategic. Give me a worthy task, and I will do whatever is within my power to get it done. And "rules" be damned if necessary. As far as I am concerned in many cases, the end justifies the means. *chuckle* On the other hand, SHE thinks long-term and looks way ahead at potential "pros and cons" of actions taken. Basically, she is the "general" who determines the targets of priority, and I am the "grunt" she sends in to handle it. Works out pretty good for us. lol
Thank you for your submission, Tin-Man. I always enjoy your jovial disposition.
UneducatedAtheists@ "Born in a long succession of Christians, I slipped into Atheism at a young age, became angry and hostile to God,"
What a great line. You were angry and hostile at a god you could not prove existed and now you are angry and hostile towards anyone who disagrees with your silly assertions. Anyone else noticing a pattern here? Once a douche always a douche.
MORAL OF THE STORY: If you want to go through life being an angry douche, one excuse is every bit as good as the next,
But what if I don't want to be an angry douche? What excuse can I use then?
>:P
rmfr
P.S. — And I completely agree...
@Cog Re: "MORAL OF THE STORY: If you want to go through life being an angry douche, one excuse is every bit as good as the next,"
Oh, sure. Absolutely. However, if you use religion as an excuse then it is more acceptable and "justified", and people will treat you as a more respectable angry douche.
arakish: Sorry,,,,, It's too late for you and I.
@ Cog: Awww... man... Damn.
***tree goes shuffling with limbs hanging low***
rmfr
Relax. I will buy you a beer on your next trip to Thailand and we can sit in one of those outdoor juicy girl bars and insult everyone walking by. It will be a great day!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6I_dKUYyI4
Now that might be fun.
rmfr
I hope you clicked on the video.
Definitely. I love Statler and Waldorf. Did I get that correct? Anyway, I loved those two guys. They were the reason I watched the Muppet Show all the time.
rmfr
My first memory of actually believing in God was around first grade. I went through a phase where every night, I would "ask Jesus into my heart". These were long elaborate prayers where I begged for forgiveness of my sin and told God I knew I really needed him and would go to hell without him. I would cry because I was terrified that I wasn't sincere enough all of the other times I'd prayed and pleaded with God that I *really* meant it this time. Nothing like the fear of hellfire to bring you closer to the God that's threatening you.
My earliest memories are that my mom told me about the crucifixion (ha, just mistyped as crucifiction!) and how Jesus was abused before he died for my sins. I do remember my initially trying to understand, and with a child's pure mind I just felt sorry for this guy who suffered. I really wanted to please my mom somehow and tried my best to feel sorry for him and understand what I should be doing, but I couldn't wrap my young mind around it. I also remember thinking that if I could only be perfect and never sin another day in my life, I would not be guilty of sin and wouldn't go to hell. Inevitably, I always "sinned." I'm 50.
Dragonfly: " crucifixion (ha, just mistyped as crucifiction!)"
Actually, I think you had it correct with "crucifiction" …
rmfr
@Arakish Reg Crucifiction
Dammit! You beat me to it! I was gonna tell her the same thing. lol
@ Tin-Man Re: Beat me to it.
Hot Damn! For once I win.
***tree hands over an oil can***
Sorry. Forgot to give you this...
rmfr
@Arakish Re: Oil can
Oh! THAT'S where it is! Phew! Thanks! I thought I had forgotten it in the truck stop restroom down th-.... Uh... Nevermind......
Ha ha ha ha ha..... You said Phew! And "Truck stop restroom." What juvenile humor!!!
To answer the title of this thread
As soon as I found that nothing explains the universe and humanity better than islam. I was about 27.
@ Sft
wow...so you didn't get as far as Dianetics and The Sea Org? They explain it much better.
So you are admitting you are not intelligent enough to understand science and math? Hmm...
https://i.imgur.com/pEVcDeY.jpg
Except for you Christian = Muslim
rmfr
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