North Korea Threat

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mykcob4's picture
I agree Diotrephes except

I agree Diotrephes except getting tough on North Korea is not the answer. We should not be afraid of China or Russia and tell them anything that North Koreas does will garner retribution not only one NK but also China and Russia. We should sanction the shit out of BOTH China and Russia and promise every nation that boycotts those nations will get what ever they need from the USA at the same price, and if they don't boycott them unilaterally they will be treated just like them.
I know the capabilities of Russias and Chinas military. Relatively they are shit. I bet that Germany could easily wipe out Russia, and the UK could easily wipe out China, but the US could easily wipe them both out simultaneously. It wouldn't be a guerrilla war or a war on terrorism. there would be specific and strategic targets. We wouldn't even use ground troops, just aircraft, and the Navy. The only thing is that NK has 1 million conventional combatants. South Korea would definitely be wiped out before the real war would happen. That is the fight scenario. We have to back our threats up or else they are empty. We don't need to use nukes. If NK fires a nuke yes it will kill many people but the retaliation doesn't need to be nuclear.
Let me recall a little bit of history for you.
In 1975 the USA pulled out of Vietnam. We won every battle but lost the war. We were afraid that if we took the war to the enemy Russia and or China would intervene to protect an ally from losing that war. So we just left. NOT "peace with honor" like Nixon proclaimed, but indignant and embarrassing retreat. What is important is what happened the very next day after we left. At 03:00 hours Vietnam time China launched an unprovoked attack against Vietnam. The Vietnamese were surprised but gathered themselves and fought back. For the next 26 days, the Chinese lost over 5000 men a day about 130,000 soldiers. They called off the attack. China's military is shit, and so is Russias! There is no need to fear them. Ask the Chechnians about the Russians. Ask the Kurds. Russia's military sucks, their tactics suck, they have no Navy and their aircraft break down. Ask the Israelis about Russian aircraft. They have been shooting them out of the sky for half a century.
You follow through with any threat and they will all cave. I bet we could make a deal with North Vietnam right now and they would kick the shit out of China.
Russia's military lacks unity. All of their units are segmented ethnically. They have no loyalty to any central command. They operate as seperate hired guns. Some units just flat out refuse to obey orders half the time. And that is what you get when you don't pay them.
I was in Kenya on an R&R. there was a Russian ship there for the same reason. Some of the Russians wanted to show the USMC (us) how strong they were and how tough they were. They began doing physical feats that were impressive. One asked me after doing 50 headstand push ups "what do you think, can you do that?" I said, "No I couldn't, but then again I only have to shoot you from a mile away and I can certainly do that." The point is that no military can function unless it functions as a whole. Saddam Hussein's military was rated 4th in the world when we first attacked it. They couldn't coordinate beyond battalion strength. They folded like a lawn chair.
So don't talk tough and not be able to back it up.
Now I am not saying let's start a war. What I am saying is take tough measures(sanctions/boycott) against NK, Russia, and China, and not be afraid of any of them! They fire a missile we carpet bomb Pyongyang. China sends troops or ships we send Tomahawk missiles if they don't back down. Russia and China will never use their nukes if they aren't being overrun so there is no reason to even worry about that aspect.
Sometimes to win a fight you have to take a bloody lip.

algebe's picture
@Diotrephes: "After that we

@Diotrephes: "After that we will saturate all of North Korea with nukes every 9 square miles"

That response would result in considerable "collateral damage" from fallout in South Korea, Japan, and China. And let's not forget that most of the 25 million North Koreans are themselves innocent victims of the Kim tyranny.

Sky Pilot's picture
Algebe,

Algebe,

No one is innocent in war time. Besides, if everyone knew that will happen they would be more proactive in seeing that there's no reason for it to happen.

I have nothing against North Korea having nukes. But they would only get one shot and then I'll give them 720 in return within a minute.

Sky Pilot's picture
mykcob4,

mykcob4,

That sounds good but it's a different world now. We simply don't have the manpower or infrastructure to fight a land war in North Korea. It would be a disaster for us in 2017. If I was in charge I would send six Trident subs to the Pacific and have two target North Korea and four target China's population centers. In the event North Korea actually did something the the two subs would fire all of their missiles at North Korean targets within the minute. If China then responded the four subs would likewise destroy all of their population centers. Game over in less than two minutes.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-russia-china-fear-americas...

LogicFTW's picture
Jeeze, No offence, but I am

Jeeze, No offence, but I am glad both Mykob and diotrephes are not "in charge."

A military, war response should always be last resort. Economic sanctions etc are tried first, and yes they mostly failed because china never fully cooperated. Sabotage is another good solution, which has been fairly effective so far. May not be enough on it's own.

Fact remains though, so far N. Korea has not "attacked" anyone. Threaten and kidnap yes, but has not actually attacked. While we certainly do not want to sit around and wait for N. Korea to do a first strike nuclear attack. I feel that N. Korea doing an unprovoked nuclear strike is small. Nuclear terrorism is definitely possible. But we cannot let fear rule the day and let rhetoric turn into war.

Sky Pilot's picture
LogicForTW

LogicForTW
IMO your position actually increases the probability of war. I don’t care if North Korea has nukes. I don’t care about their threats. I would not use sanctions or sabotage against them. I would simply deploy some Trident subs to the Pacific with their missiles programmed to saturate North Korean territory. I would then calmly say that if North Korea fires a missile in our direction without our approval then they will all die. And that would be it.

xenoview's picture
North Korea crisis: US seeks

North Korea crisis: US seeks Kim Jong-un asset freeze. That is a very good move by the US, take his money away.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41182541

mykcob4's picture
I want to make it clear about

I want to make it clear about my position. I don't advocate a war with NK. I advocate extreme sanctions and if nations like Russian and China refuse to get on board with isolating NK, then I would sanction them with the same extremes. My point in my last post is that we don't have anything more to fear from Russia and China. Even if either one or both decided to use military force against us. I was just laying out Russia and China's REAL capabilities.

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