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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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@David Killens
"Most theists claim they know the nature of this god, that it is benevolent, loving, yadda yadda yadda. Yet when pressed on hard questions such as "why doesn't this god reveal itself?" they reverse course and claim that they do not know the nature of this god, that it acts in mysterious ways. Do you understand this blatant contradiction, this dishonesty?"
Hello David, I was hoping to hear from you again, I like your spirit. I'm at work right now. So I'll do my best to answer some of the comments. I don't claim to know much about God. I'm just never going to stop learning about it. Seeking the spiritual nature of things. Words on a paper should lead you to a revelation and an experience. If it's possible that a message can convey the truth? Then would it matter if the structure and the form of delivery can be obstructed. Could the message stay the same? Maybe it was written like that to detour people who are not fully prepared to embrace the belief it takes, the deep rooted "want to know God". "Even though they see, they still don't believe" "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." You can read words and comprehend them and even see the message. But, if you don't want to believe it or have an experience from it, for whatever reason? Then that's fine. It said people will be hated for this message and killed. It said the world would always reject God. "Do not conform to the ways of this world, but rather be transformed by the renewing of your mind." I know y'all will chew this up as well. I just have fun with the experience of what some of this message conveys. I mean what kind of teaching tells you your going to be hated for this and possibly killed for believing this. Lol no other message tells you stuff like this. I digressed. I can't help but live in the possibilities. That's all. I can live and die happy like that.
GH
@ Great hope
"Words on a paper should lead you to a revelation and an experience. If it's possible that a message can convey the truth? Then would it matter if the structure and the form of delivery can be obstructed. Could the message stay the same? Maybe it was written like that to detour people who are not fully prepared to embrace the belief it takes, the deep rooted "want to know God". "Even though they see, they still don't believe" "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." You can read words and comprehend them and even see the message. But, if you don't want to believe it or have an experience from it, for whatever reason? "
Yadda yadda yadda, to me it is just word salad. This is a VERY lame excuse for the contradiction espoused that "if you seek, you will find". I will give a quick summary of my life. I was raised into an active Christian family. At about the age of 20 I rejected organized religion because to me it was more social club/power over the masses than a link to any deity. But I was very spiritual, and for the next forty years engaged in a search for god. I embraced different philosophies, did a lot of deep thinking, even went through a period where I frequently got on my knees and prayed fervently. There was one church where I could be found late at night, alone in a pew, kneeling and praying. I talked to many people of faith, many pastors and priests.
So when you start the old excuse that somehow I wasn't ready or I could not find the key to revelation, I throw it back in your face. I walked the walk, I was sincere.
This is the problem with the bible, it is full of contradictions and BS meanderings. One can read the bible and come away with any number of interpretations. That is why there are so many different variations of the same basic faith. I reject the bible because it is definitely not the word of god. No god would publish such a screwed up and vague document. I do not reject a god, I just do not believe in any because there is zero evidence or proof of one.
GH - I was thinking about you long after I went offline. You remind me of me, so long ago, when I needed a god so badly, so desperately because I had no father, no parent, and absolutely no self worth, and I was looking for anything, ANYTHING, that would fill those deep, deep volcanic holes in my heart.
At the Nazarene church, on Wednesday nights, we had "flocks". Small groups of church members who met weekly and discussed, studied anything. I was a part of a women's group. And I was questioning a lot about Xtianity, but didn't tell anybody. I was bored, and looking around the room, when it suddenly occurred to me that none of us had fathers. Some had died, some had left early on, and some were on float (marines away at war).
Many Xtians look to a "heavenly father" to protect them from their fears, whatever they are. Could this be you? It's a heavy question, and one that I don't expect an answer to, but ask yourself if this might ring true. GH, your need for a god does not mean that there is one. And that's the problem.
I don't hate religion. I understand why people need it. And we're all doing the best we can, until we know better. My guess is that Xtianity is not working for you, and that's why you're here. Please PM at any time; I'd be glad to chat without all the boys looking on. (smile)
@Magnificent Beast
Thank you so much for your kindness and consideration. Everything is working out great in my life. I've really come a long way. If you were to talk to me several years ago? I wouldn't even give you a moment of my time. I wouldn't give anything to anyone unless it benefited me. I had a front so good I looked like Frank Sinatra, Pablo Escobar, Gandhi, and Denzel Washington all in one. Sometimes I could even hear Morgan Freeman narrating my life. I was so crazy and empty looking like the shiniest polished pile of shit you've ever seen. It wasn't until I let go of everything that I found giving is one of the secrets to life. Now I give to everyone I see. I give them the best me I can, and smiles, hugs, tears, and laughter. Ive learned correct connections are kindgdom keys. Strong bonds are the greatest treasure we all want. Even though my life is very busy and it always throws curve balls. I just keep rolling with it and my life could not be more complete. It's only recently that I have been inspired to get some insight into the psychology of non believers. I wondered how anyone could be so sure that there is no Creator? Because, like, we don't know. But we will definitely find out. I would much rather live life in the possibility that there is. Then die and find out there wasn't. Than to live like there is not. Then die and find out there is.
Also 1 more question I have is, I understand religion and traditions are retarded. But, I mean, do you think if God is powerful enough to Create all of this? I mean, like, UMM, I think He knows what He's doing. I don't think we need to question Him as much as we should question ouselves, why don't we want to know Him? Just like all great ideas are simple. So is God's plan. But, we will let every little thing come between what we already know in our souls. I used to think I was going to have to fit in a box or be a Cookie Cutter Christian to follow God. But that was a F.E.A.R. (false evidence appearing real™) God only wants to protect us from ourselves and give us ultimate freedom with the knowledge of sin, separation, and death. No longer the temptation. The ending is perfect and no one can earn it. It is given freely to those who "want it". The lake of fire at the end is God's deletion program. So if you want nothingness? God is a just judge. He will give everyone exactly what they chose\want. It might seem like an eternity though when you see that God's Love is everything we are created for and you chose the opposition. That might be a little tormenting, or it might be joyful, depends on what's really in your heart. But, we will get everything we've ever dreamt of, with what we chose. As life itself flashes before our eyes. Leaving us naked and bare.
@Sheldon "do you have any objective evidence of this"
It's already in your soul.
In a life we didn't ask for, in a world we will never understand, and a death with a choice made.
It would be quite a boat to miss, because you couldn't get out of you left brain for more than half of a second to see what you already have in your heart.
Only a believer can say this, I hope you are right. And I am wrong. But something (really deep down) tells me that might not be the case. Either way only one of us are going to be able to say "I told you so" but on that day, it won't need to be said.
Forgive me, stuff just comes out when I write sometimes. Thank you all for your kindness patience with me on this journey of understanding for one another.
GH
I bet y'all won't watch these through *hopeful chuckles* *blink *wink *blink*
Watch "If God is? Would you want to know? Lose nothing Atheism has but gain everything they dont." on YouTube
https://youtu.be/D1e3HvpBOdk
Watch "Zeitgeist Debunked: Jesus Is Not A Copy Of Pagan Gods" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/30AunYXtYDg
Yeah, I watched it the 1st time you linked it.
Then I watched a couple minutes (until I realized it was the same damn thing) the 2nd time you linked it.
Then I watched the start again, the 3rd time you linked it.
So no, I will not be watching any of it this 4th time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You've linked it so much I've learned to recognize it by the url!
Put yourself in our shoes: how many times does it need to be linked before it should be considered spam/advertising/promotion?
@Nyarlathotep
Cool, did you watch both of them? I don't know many other videos that are as helpful as these. Also there are new people on this post. So I'm just putting it out there.
Apologetics are not designed to convince non-believers, so in that regard they are absolute garbage.
Apologetics are designed to re-enforce the belief of the credulous. Based on your praise of them, I have to assume they are excellent in this regard.
------------------------------------------
Zeitgeist is dogshit. I don't need to watch someone debunk it.
------------------------------------------
You didn't answer the question. Let me rephrase it more bluntly: if you were me, and you saw the same person posting the same video over and over, how many times would it take before you banned the person for spamming/advertising? Could you phrase your answer in form of an integer?
@Nyarlathotep
" if you were me, and you saw the same person posting the same video over and over, how many times would it take before you banned the person for spamming/advertising? "
Forgive me. Most of my responses are when I'm at work. And they are voice typing on my cell phone. So I don't really get to think them through very much. I might seem all over the place. Because my life is like that. I've never been much of a writer and I flunked English over and over. I liked history and math. I've never debated before and this is my first time on any kind of forum and I still don't know what blogs are. I found athiest republic on FB messenger. And they were kind enough to answer me when I started seeking understanding. They recommend that I post in the forums. So here I am. I've been sacrificing time, that I don't have, for this and I don't really know why?
If I were in your shoes? I would ask myself is this guy really trying to promote a video with like 300 views? Or is this all he knows? And maybe he's doing his best to help people as "cynical" as I have admitted to him? The only way he knows how? Hmm, maybe if I put myself in his shoes? The possibility if God does exist, seems to me like, a few points he's making actually make a microscopic amount of sense. Even if he is deluded or not. He definitely has a unique way of thinking and writing. I've been posting on these forums for a long time and he seems to be gaining friendships. He's a theist and even old man shouts... likes him. Maybe banning him for posting 1 video, 4 different times, in 3 different posts, over the span of 2 weeks, seems a bit extreme. I'll let him post it 3 or 4 more times before I DM him and let him know of some of the rules about advertising. Who knows, maybe a lurker reads what he wrote and watches the video and it was just what they were looking for? Probably not (*cynical chuckles*). But I don't think this guy is spamming us even though it seems like he's leading with his chin *remembering innocence chuckles*
I'm falling asleep writing this. I can barely keep my eyes open and I haven't showered after work yet. I'm just going to sleep for an hour or 2 and then I'll shower.
Thank you for your time nylar.
Btdubs, what does your name mean and is that nylarhotep in the picture? Why did you choose that? Didn't he want to be a god or something? I'm genuinely asking. I've always been fascinated with Egypt and pyramids.
Nyarlathotep is a fictional entity of modern origin. The avatar is a painting titled "Nyarlathotep".
@ Great hope
"I wondered how anyone could be so sure that there is no Creator?"
This is where I must correct you. As an atheist I lack a belief in a god. I also lack a belief in invisible eight foot tall bunny rabbits.
I am not sure there is no "creator". But I have zero empirical evidence for such.
There are many things we run across that fall within the boundaries of "umm, I don't really believe it exists", such as the Easter Bunny, Santa Clause, Spiderman, Thor, Superman, Bugs Bunny, Marvin the Martian, Harry Potter, and countless others we hear in fictional tales. And in my mind, your creator falls in that same bin.
I repeat, I am not denying the existence of a "creator", I just fail to be convinced one exists.
Let us play the odd or even game. We encounter a huge jar filled with marbles, abandoned in a remote location. Before we even examine it closely or count the marbles, you insist that there is an even number of marbles in that jar. I state that I do not believe you. Now this is the important part ... I am not insisting that there is an odd number of marbles in that jar. I just will not believe if it is odd or even until I have proof. Do you see the difference?
You assert that there is a "creator", I say "Umm, I don't believe you". We can count the marbles to ascertain if they are odd or even, that is called empirical proof. And in the case of your "creator", I require empirical proof.
Odd or even, creator or no creator, I require proof.
@David Killens
Well said. Thank you for that insight. You broke it down for me perfectly. I can completely see that view. It is quite annoying that we don't get more from God. But at the same time we have been given a lot. We just have this curse of more all the time. It used to drive me nuts.
What objective evidence can you demonstrate that any any deity is real?
Hi, Shel -
You talkin to me? Assuming you are, there isn't any evidence that any deity is real. Gee whiz, you should know that about me, by now
@Sheldon
I Love you bro. Lol I never know how to respond to your comments. You always leave a dead end. You seem to have more figured out then we all will ever know. You already know there is no objective evidence. No one will ever have that, until we go to the "great unknown". It all comes down to that. So with all the brevity I can muster up. This is all I have.
The Love we have for others doesn't need to come from a deity to be real. The Love for others is the meaning and purpose of life. If we can just do our best with that? Death will be glorious! God or no God. The insertion that there is no God\no afterlife, does sound extremely satisfying. But, just on the whim that there is? I'm going to use all of me (spirit included) to access such experience. All while giving life as much breath to fun, laughter, tears, and hope as I can What do I have to lose?. I Love you all, and this life is so much bigger than any of us could ever imangine. Something is definitely going on with all of this. I hope you don't miss out on the message because you got lost in the mess. *Silly chuckles* see what I did there with mess and message* wink wink* *pun intended* *inserting thumb now*
GH
This is my all time favorite song. If you give it a couple minutes of your busy life? Please listen to it all the way through. It's true ; )
Watch "The Gospel" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/wm8tFcUdLgM
@ Great hope
"This is my all time favorite song. If you give it a couple minutes of your busy life? Please listen to it all the way through. It's true ; )
Watch "The Gospel" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/wm8tFcUdLgM"
I will watch this video only if you promise on your lord that you will watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKYYPh8rvQU
Deal. I promise on my Lord I'll watch it. That song came out the year I was born. I remember listening to it in a car seat. *Young chuckles*
I did listen to it in it's entirety, basically a light rappy tune telling tales I have heard countless times from my early childhood. And of course, at the end it lays down the guilt trip, about dying for us.
"just on the whim that there is? I'm going to use all of me (spirit included) to access such experience."
This is called Pascal's wager, named after Blaise Pascal. A seventeenth-century French philosopher, mathematician and physicist Blaise Pascal (1623–62), posited that humans bet with their lives that God either exists or does not. He also reasoned we have everything to gain from believing and nothing to lose. Needless to say I do not agree with him on that, though he was genius in many ways. The fact is believing in a deity doesn't increase your odds at all, as you could easily be selecting the wrong one, or the wrong version, and the odds are vastly against you there. However far more problematic is the irrational idea we could dupe an omnipotent omniscient diety by pretending to believe in case it is real. Or the equally specious idea it would reward us under such circumstances.
I might be more easily convinced that a deity exists and is sadistic, and that it's sole reason for our existence is to test how gullible we are. It's unlikely, and not very compelling as there isn't any objective evidence, and of course it's not a every comforting idea, but at least it isn't logically negated by the facts.
Torturing someone to death for vicarious redemption is moral terpitude. So we can start with it being morally flawed. However a more important point would be there isn't a shred of credible evidence that it's true, and I don't go ahead and believe things that Can't be properly evidenced, especially when those beliefs involve claims that outrage reason, and deny known scientific facts.
I still want to know what she meant by "lesser evolved person".
She's Xtian, alright. The same arrogance, the same script. And so young!
So all this stuff about "spirit" is false?
Yes. And I know that seems impossible. How can it be false if everybody believes it, and has for centuries. How can that happen? Wouldn't they have caught it by now? There's the bible, right? Everybody teaches from it, and it's been around since forever.
Yes, to all that. But the bible is not true. I used to believe in it, myself. I was a bible scholar for 15 years; taught Romans to adults, etc. I was in it with the Nazarene church, hook, line and sinker.
And when I had questions, like how can God love the little children, if the lets them die, and doesn't do anything when they're suffering? That's not a very powerful, loving god, do you think? There is no holy spirit. It's all bullshit. There is no hell, there is no heaven.
Ask yourself, if God is so powerful, and so loving, why does God allow children to be raped, killed, tortured? Just try to answer that.
Start from there. It's a simple question. You find your own answer. And when other Xtians tell you, "we cannot know the will of God, or understand his purpose for our lives" Think of what you're saying. Don't give your question a free pass. Search for the answer. If you're like me, and the rest of the millions of atheists around the world, you'll realize it DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.
"Spirit" is a supernatural concept. That's why they made Jesus into a deity. If he was just a good guy, then what good is that to anybody. They made him into a deity, because they needed one to keep people in line. What better way to do it, than claim that if people don't do what other people want, they're going to be punished; it's called hell. Fear is a great motivator.
When I became an atheist, it was a very slow process, over two years, because I didn't want to be atheist. No way. I fought it the whole way. I started finding answers that did make sense, and god wasn't in any of it. But Xtianity just did not make sense. God did not save me from living on the street. His eye is supposed to be on the sparrow, right? And he watches over me? No, he didn't, because he doesn't exist. It's like complaining why Santa didn't give me the present I wanted. It's because there is no Santa.
@Magnificent Beast
"Ask yourself, if God is so powerful, and so loving, why does God allow children to be raped, killed, tortured? Just try to answer that."
If God were just going to fix everything he would keep restart Adam and Eve over and over and over until he got a scenario where they didn't fall. But then there wouldn't be a choice. "The first shall be last and the last shall be first" like I keep saying we haven't seen How It Ends. So the claim that there is no afterlife or no God or no spirit, is quite a claim. Why was Nikola Tesla involved with spiritual matters?
To answer your question with a question. What about those people who have harmed children? And got away with it. Do they never see Justice?
Great Hope, well, at least you're being honest instead of the Act. So, you know God's mind, then?
One of the things about religion is that they feed you answers. YOu konw what I mean? You don't get to answer for yourself, based on what you know. That's why there is a bible with bible studies and churches... all to keep people in line.
You said, "If God were just going to fix everything he would keep restart (sic) Adam and Eve over and over and over until he got a scenario where they didn't fall."
Now, how do you what God would do? You are supposing that you know God's mind. You don't sweet. Your listening to Xtianity-ese and accepting the same old script that I used to believe.
But really. How can you know what God would do? Are you clairvoyant? OR did you get answers fed to you which would defend your belief in God? Any of the answers that you get from your church family or Xtians will always defend God. No matter what you ask. It's all about protecting the Big Guy. And that's the problem.
In answer to your third paragraph, no, I don't see justice. That's the reality of it. People want to be comforted to believe that somehow someway God is going to punish. Not man's justice, but God's justice, right? That's the problem with injustice. That's why we are here, living day to day to protect children and find justice in the courts. There are a lot of horrible, ugly things that you'll find out about, but that's later. Things we have absolutely no control over. But we keep trying because that's humans do... they keep surviving and growing.
I have a question for you, too. Pretend you are driving at night and get stuck on a highway because you have a flat. It's dark and scary, and here comes someone who fixes the flat for you. Gives you phone to call whomever you need to, so they don't worry. And you drive off, and this guy follows for a while to make sure the tire is secure and you're safe.
Was that God who helped you? Or was that a nice guy? Assume the guy was atheist.
So was that God who helped you, or...?
@Magnificent Beast
Perhaps I should have worded it differently. I definitely don't know squat about the mind of God lol. If God were just going to fix everything? Wouldn't He just restart Adam and Eve over and over to get a scenario where they didn't fall? Not only would that prevent all of that bad stuff from happening, we wouldn't need a Savior. But we would never have the knowledge of Good and evil. We would always have the temptation. That's what heaven will be like. We will have the knowledge, no longer the temptation. I came up with that on my own. I've never heard anyone say such things. And of course the man helped me albeit an atheist or not. We are supposed to help people.
Atheist Republic often post this to their twitter feed:
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According to Christian morality, NO ONE receives justice for their sins, because Jesus has "redeemed" them. However, at the same time, even though you are not culpable for any sin, he destroys you if you do not follow him.
If someone "gets away" with a crime, then yes, it must be the case they never see justice.
Personally, I'm more in favor of rehabilitation of criminals rather than punishment, with imprisonment only done for the safety of the general public. It would be immoral to punish someone for a crime who is unable to comprehend why their actions are wrong. I should however say that I am probably quite naive and idealistic about the whole field.
We may as well talk about magical ten foot tall invisible bunnies. There is zero proof of them either.
The "spirit" concept is born out of ego and fear. We want ourselves and mankind to be something "special", and we fear that once we die, it's all over.
David, Harvey is NOT a "bunnie". He is a pooka, and he's only 6' 3.5" tall, not ten feet.
Honestly, please get your facts straight. (joke)
Darn rodent keeps getting me drunk, and in that state it's hard to tell how tall Harvey is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kMwRkAqOQs
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