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@ Great hope
Points in your little diatribe that completely validate you suffer from mental retardation.
There is no belief on the color of the sky. As I have always said my entire life, "The sky appears blue." As for the green, where is your OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE? Hitchens' Razor.
Where is your OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE? Hitchens' Razor.
You still do not understand what "atheism" means. Neutron Stars are starting to look light and fluffy compared to this dense mind.
Just to frustrate mentally retarded Religious Absolutists like you. The truly sad thing is that y'all do it to yourselves.
Just to gives us sorry socially unacceptable, fat ass wannabes, living in our parents basements something to do. We got to get stimulation somehow.
What two opposing views. Hitchens' Razor.
The only archaeological evidence that has been found is that some locations of maybe two cities were correct. Virtually all the others were completely wrong (in that the cities never existed) or they were so far off (as in many dozens of kilometers) it ain't funny. As far as I know, only Jericho was correct. All other cities just never existed and were fantasies.
rmfr
@ Arakish
Jericho existed but the archeology nowhere near matches the events, times and scale as described in the bible.
Thanks for the addendum. Much appreciated dude. I was only referring to the fact that Jericho is the only city ever found that is mentioned in the Bible. NOT including cities that still exist today.
rmfr
Edit: There are quite a few archaeological sites, but no definitive proof as to which city/town they are.
"If there is no God, then why is anyone an atheist?
What an astonishingly stupid question. When all theists keep their superstitious hokum beliefs to themselves, and stop insisting they know how a deity wants others to live their lives, then I'll stop pointing and laughing.
"
The fact there is the universe, human reason, life itself, complexities in creation - all point to the very existence of God."
A sweeping strident but completely unevidenced claim. What objective evidence can you demonstrate to support it.
Cue another argument from ignorance fallacy.
"An atheist is someone who believes there is no God. "
So the lack of evidence for unicorns isn't sufficient for you to not belive they exist. You have to base a whole belief system around it? What a strangely bizarrely stupid idea.
Atheism is the absence or lack of belief in a deity. It's in the dictionary, just Google it.
"They also believe there is no (and can be no) evidence for God’s existence. This of course is an incorrect conclusion.
In my opinion"
Now that's funny. Do you really not know the difference between opinion and evidence? This explains a lot. Your opinion is wrong of course.
"I’ve ever met an atheist who doesn't believe in naturalism."
I doubt this. I think you're a shameless liar. However I don't hold this belief so now you've met an atheist who doesn't hold such a belief.
I don't however believe anything exists beyond the material physical universe. Nor will I untill gullible theists like yourself stop using argument from ignorance fallacies to reverse the burden of proof and demonstrate some objective evidence for anything beyond the material universe. I assume you don't actually deny the physical world exists?
"Physics—suggests"
Physics doesn't suggest, that's not how science works. It gathers and tests evidence. Nothing evidenced by physics concludes anything supernatural or any deity is real, and that's axiomatic.
Same old b.s....
GH, you asked, “What kind of message of hope can we bring to these people?”
You think they want hope? I think they want to eat.
Cyber, excellent post. I gave you my vote, with the two others.
@CyberLN
Ok so where are the millions of homeless people going to get this free meal from? After the free meal is done? Where are they going to go? To a hopless alley? To a box in the back of a warehouse? What if they have kids? Are all homeless people the same? Can we just stereotype them into the same category of the low end of survival of the fittest? How long will it be before they need more food? Why is the number growing? Can not at least some of these people get food for themselves? Why does it take years for them to get anything together enough for a room with 1 bed? If they can even do that? Ahh but that is their problem. I don't have to care. Someone else should do something about that. Food? Your message is food? These are some of the most heart broken, hopless, depressed people in so much pain without health care, mental care, recovery care, or any care at all. It would greatly disturb you to live a couple hours in their shoes. All of us are just a few unfortunate events away from that becoming our own reality. Lest world war 3 and or population control. Our very lives hang by a thread, and all we are, is who we could be to others. If you were in the trenches with me, you would see how powerful hope is, that it is the key to genuinely love beyond condition and expectation. I would like to see anyone do this for years on end, without the help of God. And this is just one of the avenues of captives and oppression. The list goes on infinitum.
I personally would like to mock such people and tell them hope doesn't exist. Their beliefs are misplaced and they should just go away so they are not a burden to the rest of us. Or just offer them a day old bagel and a water and go back to my beautiful life, that came from only God knows, well that would imply that it even exists in the first place. Onwards to nowhere and to nothingness. Unless you got a horrific placement? Randomness is awesome. Horray for me.
If you want the gain a speck of perspective? Check out the movie Machine Gun Preacher based on a true story starring Gerard Butler. I would really like to hear your thoughts on that guy portrayed in that movie. They show him at the end.
Watch "Machine Gun Preacher - Movie Trailer (2011) HD" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/eddnloOFjwY
I'm not seeing how the motive to delude oneself lends any credence or validity to the delusion? I'd say we should more strongly suspect beliefs that are based on a strong motive or desire, especially when no one can demonstrate any objective evidence for them. The fact a rich minority wish to fool the gullible majority is another reason to suspect religions are nonsense.
This tired old theist cliche of insisting delusion lends hope to people who have nothing else, is completely specious of course, as we are in a position to give them something else, and to ensure their hopes for the future are real, and not a delusion. In the US as in most countries the vast majority of the countries wealth is owned or controlled by a tiny minority. It should be easy, and a priority, in most decent countries to ensure no one lives in need of basic necessities. What's more this doesn't require, nor is it helped by any delusional beliefs, used as a distraction to fool such people into putting up with less than they deserve in this life, in favour of a fictional one after they die.
@Sheldon
I am not a rich elite. So it is much harder for most of us, that aren't in power, to do much to help the sinking ship we call the world. They have made it clear they have no interest in helping us deplorables. I'm not saying that evidence of a deity is necessary to help this world. But, even if it is a "delusional idea" it still helps 100 fold. Once again, if there is no Creator? Nothing changes and we can die together all getting the same thing. Whoopdy do. I still lived doing exactly what I wanted to do. Even though it took me a long time to get to this level of selflessness and genuine hope for others. It's has become the most fulfilled life I could ever dream of and by my power alone would not be possible. I get it Sheldon, I do. I wanted special treatment and God (if it were real) to do something that I deemed acceptable as evidence. "If" I were to get that? Then, I would do what it wanted. What I was created for. Love for others no matter what it looked like or took to achieve. I now understand why it's so hard and takes constant work and sacrifice. Which is why the elite will never do it. They would have to let go of what they love the most, power. God has given us everything we need already. It always boils down to if you want it or not? And what would you be willing to let go of in order to get it? God can't force you to love Him. We choose to go away from Him. But, there is a way back. (Hence the breadcrumbs)
Watch "Palm Sized Flying Killer Robots a.k.a Slaughterbots" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/2yhtnVJSc9M
Do you still think they are going to use this stuff to help the world? 13 families have 99% of the wealth in the world because fear based greed has corrupted distribution. They have ideals and plans set into motion. Why would they not? They can do anything they like. They play Monopoly in real life with us. Thier perfect slave robots and artificial intelligence are upon us. Nikola Tesla had his work on free energy stolen decades ago. We can't imagine what they have done underground in the past 5 years. These are only the tip of the iceberg. The elites "Paradise Utopia" is within their grasp. Unless you know somebody? You and i are an expendable deplorable. Either way our life hangs by a thread. Worship is what you give your time and attention to. It is what you are. "As a man thinketh in his heart, so he is." If you think that The Creator and Giver of Life is hard to figure out? Or you simply have placed your faith that it maybe exists or doesn't exist. I hope what you give your time and attention to is going to be able to give you everything you need to cross the threshold of death. If there is no incorruptible righteous judgement appropriating correct placement? Then nothing changes and everyone gets the same thing (which is the Pinnacle of senseless illogical fallacy) nothingness is all we ever were with no memory of it. What a waste. If that's what you believe? Then why even continue? If your like me? This life is insufficient. Never enough power or control. And love for others is too much work.
But... If there is a Creator? Then there is a plan, and a deep rooted longing in our souls. That we either accept or let every little thing come between it.
@ Great hope
I ain't a rich elite either. Then again, I have never sought power of any kind.
In particular, the bold text.
Why do you idiotic Religious Absolutists always have to tell us what is in our souls? What we are thinking? What we all say? This does nothing except show the mental retardation that results from your beliefs. I have no beliefs of any kind. Everything I hold to be true is true because it has Objective Hard Empirical Evidence that proves it is true. You on the other hand have none.
The only longing I have in my soul is the deep-rooted desire that me wife and twin daughters were never murdered. Otherwise, I have absolutely no longing in my soul for anything. I am one of those few persons who has absolutely no desire to be in any kind of spotlight. I prefer being the one behind the curtains that makes sure everything is going OK. In fact, I get from 5 to 20 emails a month informing me that another science journal paper has been published with my name mentioned in it. I simply delete those emails without ever investigating. I do not care for status or any kind of celebrity. However, you seem to enjoy wallowing in that cesspool.
That is another reason why I like forum boards such as AR. Anonymity. That is why I took the "field technician" job at Yellowstone, instead of the "research data analyst" job, taking a $5500/yr pay cut. Yes, I help in gathering data that goes into science journal papers, but I also enjoy the partial anonymity. Another reason is I get to drive all over Yellowstone to make sure the data gathering equipment is working properly. Sometimes it involves hiking.
The only time I am not bothered by the spotlight is when I am asked to speak in a debate. In fact, I was invited three days ago to participate in a debate at UNM with the topic: "Has Religion Outlived Its Original Purpose?" Gosh, I am already writing what I am going to say. At least I have until Friday 09 November 2018 to complete my speech. Was informed we will have only 15 minutes each. And I think it is going to be fun since it will be with the same debate team I was with in another debate we had about three? months ago...
Well, I am getting verbose. Let me shut up.
rmfr
Edit: added a couple words I left out
@arakish
I'm very sorry for your loss. This life can sure dish out some shit. Shakespeare said "what is a tragedy but a misunderstood comedy" I still don't know WTF he's talking about.
Forgive my impression of what it seems like I am. I'm really tired and don't like the spot light either. Believe me I'm not doing any of this for me. I'm just giving parts of my story and why I live in the possibilities instead of the definites. I had no idea how much I would be learning from these threads. We know only little bits of each other's characters from typing on forums. I also have lost the capacity to see what I look like to others since I've been living in principals for years now. I implied that there would be a deep rooted longing in our hearts, "if God exists". God said He designed us that way "wonderfully and fearfully made" since an atheist has no belief in such a thing. It might not be in there. Or it has been pushed so far down you can't feel it anymore. But that's only if God exists. Most people have an obsession with the why and the how we are here and the way things work and if we can manipulate it (hence science). If you have found your answers and are fine with dying with them. Then there is nothing to debate. I've just been learning about what I believe and your comment helped me. I'm not trying to harm anyone and I am just winging all of this. It's made me look at myself and ask what is working? The how and the why is going to be debated in every avenue until the end of time. I believe everyone is giving their best effort at any given time. But what has helped me the most is, what is worthy, can it help others, how long will it last, and can anyone take it from me? The only thing that answers all of those is...
It's up to you to decide.
GH
@ Great hope
Just a very short one this time. I am very tired. Did about 15 miles hiking and about 200 miles driving today. It can take its toll...
Thanks.
Sure can.
Because he was always high on opiates. I ain't never understood a damn word he said.
One thing to remember about me. I do not believe in any claims of any god existing. Even after 3000± years, there is absolutely no evidence of its existence. And for me, NO EVIDENCE = NO EXISTENCE. That is the simplest kind of rationality.
And I'll try to keep this short. I can be verbose, but I'll try me best. When I was 3½ years old, me mom caught me reading the labels of cereal boxes. To get me started in how to read, she used the Bible. However, at the same time, I was also reading Mother Goose books, Grimm's Faerie Tales, and Æsop's Fables. And that is exactly what the Bible appeared to be: a collection of faerie tales. 1½ years later, me mom gave me a novel, Childhood's End (recommended reading) by Sir Arthur C. Clarke with a note telling to read it and write a five-page report. I loved the story so much, I wrote ten pages. Two months later, Star Trek premiered on TV. And I fell in love with Spock. He became my hero and I emulated him as best I could with his use of logic and reasoning to ascertain the true facts. Thus, I actually became a scientist even though I did not know it. My dad even teased me by saying I was born with a mind like a computer. If it was not logical, it did not compute. Scary thing was that he was correct. About 1½ years after Star Trek went off-air, guess what happened. Just six days after me birthday, Neil Armstrong did his "Small Step Giant Leap" thing. I was forever hooked on science and science-fiction. Especially the hard sci-fi like Sir Arthur C. Clarke, Isaac Asimov, Robert A. Heinlein, Robert L. Forward, Larry Niven, etc. There are some great "hard" sci-fi writers today like Gregory Benford, Stephen Baxter, amongst others. Sometimes I do like the soft sci-fi, fantasy sci-fi, but much prefer the hard stuff. As Neil deGrasse Tyson said ( and I paraphrase), "Religion and Rationality shall never, ever, be reconcilable." Thus, I was ALWAYS an atheist. Always have been, am, always shall be.
Here is one thing Andy Rooney said, and I love it, "Why am I an atheist? I ask you, "Why is anybody not an atheist?" Everyone starts out being an atheist. No one is born with belief in anything. Infants are atheists until they are indoctrinated. I resent anyone pushing their religion on me. I don’t push my atheism on anybody else. Live and let live. Not many people practice that when it comes to religion." And ain't that the damned truth.
I just cannot abide the complete irrationality of religion, especially since it cannot provide any OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, in today's natural world is completely explainable through science. We may not have all the answers, but everything can be deduced through science. As Neil deGrasse Tyson (one of my favorite speakers) once said (again I paraphrase), "Isn't it amazing how science keeps finding and developing more and more answers of our natural world and "god" keeps retreating to an ever decreasing pocket?" And here is another FACT for you: "Christianity did not become a major religion by the quality of its truth, but by the quantity of its violence." — Michael Sherlock. And another: "All religions pride themselves on developing analogies normally after the truth has been discovered by scientists." — Peter Atkins
rmfr
@arakish
Well said, I can see that position.
I came here for understanding. You and David killens have helped me the most. My story began when I was young like you, when I was 4, when my dad killed himself and I asked my mom what this life is? She said, "well I don't really know". She might have said something after that? But "I don't know" was all I heard and I felt like I was sucked into a black hole. My entire world was thrown into Oblivion. The people that I came here through had put it on me alone to find all the answers. Over the next several years I saw so much more death. I became very obsessed with it. "Death is the road to awe" is something I've held on to. A Creator with a perfect end game is by far the most beautiful thing in existence. And it can not be ruled out. After decades of fighting it myself and testing everything. My experiences led me to the possibility. That possibility is everything hope comes from. It's the only thing that is complete. We can do all the "scienceing" while the season is ripe for it. But, it won't do a single thing for us as we are done with our last day here. So many people and so much time. Life is so much more than we can put a finger on and say "This is it". It's objective and subjective. It's a blend of everything. It's a balancing of every extreme. I can see why someone would go to the extreme of believing there is no Creator. But it is a belief. The possibility of there being a Creator will always be there. That's what I connect with. I personally have experienced results in every facet of my internal and external world. But I really tested it to the extremes. Because I had to know. God said He would be there for those who are fearless enough to leave everything and open the door. So I did. And then God did. Here is where I lose people. They seem to think it will be different for them. They think it can be on a structure of their ways, not God's way. Here is where people get off. This one is the cause of it all. This is the one I struggled with the most. (We do not have a say in what The Creator and Giver of Life does.)
So I'm not here to change anything about anyone. I don't have nor want that power. It might of seemed like I started off like I was preaching weeks ago. But this is the crux I was looking for. And everyone is born with this. We won't know until we take the jump of abandon. No matter who was born or what time they were born in, no matter what you were told or believe, no matter who or what. We don't know.
But we will find out.
I truly do hope everyone has the best life and lives it to the fullest and gets back up blow after blow. I thank you all for your time. The possibilities is my only way to help. Not that any of you fine people asked for or need any of that. *And *the thumb* goes back in with *hopeful chuckles* *where is my peanut butter* and the Tin-Mans blanket?* Blink* *Blink* Blink* I'm sleepy***. **
I Love you all. Good night.
GH
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@ Great hope
Don't you see the difference? You are a theist and based on that post, have given upon this life, hoping that the next is more rewarding. I do not see you willing to take on and fight injustices or the immoral distribution of wealth.
Have you ever considered that this pessimistic mind-set is a product of your theist beliefs?
I am an atheist and even if I die tomorrow, I will fight each day. I do it because right now there are children suffering, people starving, and injustices committed every moment. My moral compass extends past my death. Even if I die tomorrow, I want a better world the day after tomorrow.
@David Killens
Yes, you are correct. I gave up on this life a long time ago. I do live for something other than myself. Yes, that is what keeps me going. I with a team that came together through crazy coincidence after crazy coincidence have helped hundreds of homeless people for years and will continue to do so. It is a very fulfilling life compared to all the other ways I tried living. We do our best to make a positive impact on our world, albeit so miniscule to the whole. There is no scenario where this world is going to end up in perfect harmony. History repeats and we are living on a sinking ship. Google what time period has had the most slavery population and the second inquiry will read "there has never been a time of slavery like we see today". They have even installed suicide nets at China workshops of children who were committing suicide because they were worked too hard. Now they can't even kill themselves. We can do our best to help the world around us God or no God. If that is what you would like to do? But we are living in a countdown, whether it's the end of the world as we know it (R.E.M.) or the end of our Lives as individuals. This whole life since birth is a preparation for death. If you can die with not believing in God or 10 foot tall bunnies? Then that's great for you. That is quite a wager if your wrong about the God thing though. Bunnies don't offer much. But The Creator and Giver of Life is offering everything. Let's hope your right. Maybe if God does exist? You'll be able to tell Him something He's never heard before? Either way God gives everyone what they desire the most. God is what I choose to desire above everything else. If I'm wrong? Nothing changes.
I'm not religious and don't belong to a denomination. Never has God commanded that. You see, if we did God's 1 commandment we would live in harmony. Love God, Love people. But because we don't. We have to make law after law after law. There is a saying "the further a society drifts from the truth the more laws they will have to make" within all of those laws are corruption and perversion. I don't know David. I'm getting verbose again. All I'm saying is. Is I Love everyone at this stage in my life and I've suffered so much I don't want anyone else to feel pain like I have. I'll do anything to help, for I feel like it's my life's calling and I'm well equipped for it. I myself feel like it's much better to live like there is a possibility of a Creator, seeking and experiencing beyond me, then die and find out there isn't. Than to live like there is no Creator and then die and find out there is. Possibilities are better than definites in a matter where we don't know the ending.
Much Love, GH
@ Great hope
We are born into this world, and for the short time we are here, it is our choice whether to enjoy every moment, or not. If one is sad or depressed at one's life and the crap thrown at us, there are methods to ease the pain. One can turn to alcohol or drugs, one can turn to religion, one can seek professional medical help and therapy. There are many other methods and choices.
I cannot be the one to guide you out of your pain, depression, and pessimistic outlook on life. All I can do is sincerely wish you the best, and let you know that I truly care about you.
There is joy to be found in our existence, we can find ways to make the sun shine and the world a less crappy place. I found my nirvana, I hope you find yours. It is out there somewhere.
@David Killens
Thank you so very much. That comment warmed my heart. I understand your position. I am a mixture of so many extremes and balanes. Pretty much everyone I know thinks I'm the happiest person they have ever met. They also think I'm nuts too lol. I think Einstein said the difference between insanity and genius is success. My pessimism comes from the great reality of this life. It doesn't mean I let it control detour me. I balance it out with great hope. But if ignorance is bliss? Then opened eyes are sorrow.
I'm grateful for everything I've been blessed with. Even though I took a lot of shit to get to where I'm at. I have all the answers I was looking for. No one and nothing will ever be able to take it away from me. There is another saying "The freest man is the one who needs the less". I get to do what I love and I'm surrounded by people who light up when they see me. I'm respected and admired by hundreds of real life people. Many of them are saddened by the fact that I don't have enough time to give to everyone. Everywhere I go it seems like it's a celebration of life. And I am a really good eater. Everywhere I go people cook me the best food. I rarely go out to eat so when I do that is a massive treat as well. My sister makes fun of me by saying that I'm a softy and it doesn't take much to get me to tear up lol. She is right, because just typing that made me tear up. It's so beautiful to see in hindsight everything it took for me to get here. I get so excited to see where this is all going to go. And if the whole Creator and Giver of Life thing is really true? Like I have experienced that it is? Then oh my goodness!!! I'll probably piss myself as my eyes pop out of their sockets and I melt into the ground. For I will finally have made it home. Now that is The Greatest of Hope.
If it's not? Then I literally lost nothing. I've connected to something down here. And I can die in the next hour without a single regret. So why not hope for a plan for all this? The whole God thing is not as scary as y'all think. I used to fear that I would have to change, or give up stuff, or something like that, or fit in a box and be a cookie cutter. But thats all religion farse. God says come as you are. So many people never get to learn all the bullshit. Some have never seen a scripture. Some can't read at all. Never neglect that there is massive work in this world against God. Deception and perversion run rampid. That's why I keep saying. It's already inside of you. God designed it that way. If some secret hidden knowledge would give people God? You would need the secret hidden knowledge, not God. God is what we need and only God. All you have to do is say, "sure, it's possible, God I don't get you bro, if your real, you have got to show me, go ahead, melt my heart, if you can, like GH said." And just stay in that belief. It could not get any more simple. Expectation will kill every miracle though. So just stay open. Once your heart melts you will have gained The Creator and Giver of Life. Nothing else will compare or be complete. Nothing will ever be able to take it away. Nothing will give you everything you were created for. Destination: Home
Or don't do it, die and find out you missed the whole boat because of some silly left brained shit that got in the way of the spirit we were all born with.
No,no,no, that's not real. It's not possible. That's a delusion. Everyone knows death is the end. Worm food is all we were spawned for. That's the silliest hope of all time... Home???(SMH) Bunnies, fairies, thor, religion, rainbow unicorns, spaghetti monsters, flat Earth on the back of a turtle held up by elephants, "science bitch" (for anyone who has seen breaking bad lol) no way, no how *in wizard of Oz voice* ain't gonna happen. Interwebs unite. There is no afterlife! proven fact! If there is afterlife? It's common knowledge that it's just random. Call Donald Trump, GH has lost his mind... Again
Lol but seriously. Give it a shot or don't. But I guess it will always boil down to. "If" you do want to know God? What would you be willing to do?
Forgive me, this is another one that just spilled out. Thank you David for your kindness. And thank you all for teaching me so much about myself. I seriously had no idea where any of this would go. Y'all are awesome people keep up the good work.
GH
An omniscient deity that "leaves breadcrumbs" while offering no evidence for its existence would be being duplicitous and cruel. I'd want nothing to do with such a deity if it existed.
That aside, what objective evidence can you demonstrate that any deity exists? Also why should anyone care what the bible says when it is demonstrably erroneous on important facts about how the universe and earth came to exist, and espouses immoral turpitude relentlessly, including of course its core message of babies being born carrying an inherited supernatural curse called sin, and the revolting and immoral idea that someone's bad deeds can be expunged by torturing another person or deity in human form to death.
Again I'd want no part of anything so repugnant. Though again there isn't a shred of objective evidence anyone can demonstrate that any of it is true.
@ great hope,
Read this post.
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/joc-gods-nastiest-turd#comment-113145
Then jump into that septic tank and pick god's nastiest turd and let's discuss it.
rmfr
Great hope,
" I want to know God. The message of the Bible seems to be the biggest bread crumb. So if there is anything anyone can offer? I would greatly appreciate it. Cynical or not."
Why do you want to believe in Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies? In the Bible he didn't give a damn about Gentiles and usually killed them when he wasn't ignoring them.
BTW, the primary message of the Bible is complete obedience and total loyalty to the Boss. It's not unique.
@Great Hope original post:
Easy: The proof is your bible is false and is a lie, it not communication from god, but humans making stuff up (usually humans making stuff up with powerful motive and agenda.) So all statements in it can also be dismissed as false, and/or not proof for anything because the central premise on which your bible relies upon is a lie, and false.
You are mostly repeating yourself here, so I will mostly repeat my answer.
The flaw of the message is it comes from the bible and your particular religion flavor you ended up in, which is not truth, but a lie.
Do not feel bad though, all religions and accompanying god ideas are a lie, not just your religion idea, and you are not alone in falling for the lie. And chances are most of the people involved in doing the lying did not, (and continue to,) even realize they were/are lying.
I suppose you might ask how I know this? I will be happy to answer that, but you may wish I have not. Lots of people desperately need their god/religion delusions.
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▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
▮ Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me. ▮
▮ Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016. ▮
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@LogicFTW
"I suppose you might ask how I know this? I will be happy to answer that, but you may wish I have not. Lots of people desperately need their god/religion delusions.
Yes I would like to know please. Thank you.
Fri, 09/07/2018 - 03:32 (Reply to #33)
"what objective evidence can you demonstrate that any deity exists? "
Tic toc...
How about the story of redemption in the Bible destroys all moral responsibility and accountability?
Since someone has already died for all your sins, sins you have committed, sins you are committing, sins you shall commit. You can be the most dreadful psychotic sociopath, yet have all your sins forgiven and still get into heaven. What kind of bullshit is that?
You can be the most evil person in real life, be forgiven, and go to heaven, simply because at the last minute you become a "believer." Yet, you can be the kindest, most helpful, and good person, yet still get sent to Hell, simply because you do not "believe." What kind of moral lesson is that?
rmfr
Which leads me to (constantly) point out that by those rules, Hitler is in heaven, and Anne Frank is in hell. That is as fucked up as anything can be.
Arakish, actually the redemptive aspect of God's nature is plainly seen throughout the Bible, if one cares to read and then understand. If you do not understand scripture, then stop - pray for your eyes and heart to be open to the wisdom of God in front of you, then read again.
This is why only someone who has God's Spirit can understand spiritual blessings. Anyone who doesn't have God's Spirit thinks these blessings are foolish. Stupidity brings happiness to senseless fools, but everyone with good sense follows the straight path.
Good sense is worthy of praise, but stupidity is a curse. Many are helped by useful instruction, but fools are killed by their own stupidity.
Jesus said "Anyone who hears my teachings and doesn't obey them is like a foolish person who built a house on sand." Matthew 7:26
So please do not labor any longer in your foolishness.
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@JimM
What objective evidence can you offer that any deity exists?
FYI, being the only one who agrees with their own comment doesn't make it any more agreeable.
Re: JimM - The entire post starting with, "Arakish, actually the redemptive aspect of God's nature is plainly seen throughout the Bible..."
I don't know about anybody else, but if there is such a thing as Death by Cliches, I do believe I damn near experienced it by reading that post.
Thanks JimM. You just admitted to being another of the most heinous and despicable of all humans. A complete supporter of having absolutely NO MORAL ACCOUNTABILITY. You are just the sorriest, nastiest piece of shit I shall ever meet.
Good riddance.
rmfr
The bible promises a lot of things, but unfortunately, there is absolutely nothing to back up those promises. The punch line (because I perceive it as more of a joke on the gullible) is that you must die to prove those promises. That's a one-way trip, with no coming back to confirm the authenticity of those promises. And once dead, you either wake up in heaven, hell, or some weird place, or you don't wake up.
So exactly what are you staking your entire existence on? My first method in investigating this series of promises is to seek out any proof, the empirical proof, reality. This god is definitely the grand master champion of hide and seek. People make many claims in hearing, or seeing, or dreaming this god. One would think that this so-called loving, powerful, and benevolent god would provide proof. This god (as the bible states) created everything, desires our worship, yet plays hide and seek. That does not make sense.
Most theists claim they know the nature of this god, that it is benevolent, loving, yadda yadda yadda. Yet when pressed on hard questions such as "why doesn't this god reveal itself?" they reverse course and claim that they do not know the nature of this god, that it acts in mysterious ways. Do you understand this blatant contradiction, this dishonesty?
Now let's give this "bible" a look. First off, it was written by an unknown number of authors over a course of hundreds of years. Those more knowledgeable can fill in the blanks, but this bible was edited and revised countless times by whoever was on power at the time. This sort of conflicts with the concept that it was inspired by god. And speaking of contradictions, just google "contradictions in the bible" and get ready for pages and pages laying out many conflicts within that tome.
Religion and worshiping a god is probably the biggest thing you can do in your life, it determines how you live, think, vote, who you associate with, even spend your money. Yet you are setting a course determined by a book that is not accurate, is incredibly flawed, and makes promises that have never proven to be true.
I am an atheist who spent over fifty years diligently searching for any sign of any god. I was very sincere in my quest, but in the end, I eliminated all the BS and came to the realization that I have zero proof that any god exists. And when I had my epiphany, my life became richer. I had not lost anything, with one exception. I had lost that fear, that fear of the unknown that dogs every theist every moment of their lives.
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