Ok so let's assume god is real... and just to narrow down god let's say god of the Bible old and New Testament...
So we now know god is 100% real and he has revealed himself and proclaims that the Bible indeed is his word and we are meant to follow as he commanded. ( that hurt to type )
So my question is why do we follow him?
Why do we praise or worship him?
Why do we follow his words?
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That's a good question, Burn Your Bible.
The theists who come here to argue for the existence of their gods never tackle the all-important question: so what?
Rather than worshipping this putative god, I'd want to ask some pointed questions. Why smallpox? Why the Boxing Day Tsunami? Why leukemia in children? Why Idi Amin? Why Justin Bieber?
"You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that, and tremble" (James 1:19).
Back when I was Christian I was taught that there is no correlation between knowing God is real, and the decision to follow Him.
Your bullshit is humorous... but why do we follow? Imagine you and I were at lunch and we were talking face to face with the Bible open.... why worship? What do we owe him?
John
You have become an Atheist now?
I didn't become atheist. I disbecame Christian. I absented my beliefs.
Only in obedience can we find freedom. We were made to exist within the boundaries of goodness. As a fish is not free when on dry land outside of its natural boundaries we are not free outside of Gods boundaries. Worship is given to God for the benefit of the worshipper. We are most complete in Him when He is most glorified in us. We may begin to follow due to fear or pride, but if that is the sole reason for our obedience then it is not true virtue.
@AJ777
"Only in obedience can we find freedom." That is an oxymoron.
Very true not to go on a tangent but...
we have free will.."how do you know?" Oh the boss told me!
How so? Obedience is a voluntary choice one makes, you are free to obey or not to obey. There are real consequences for both actions.
Hymn lyric from John Newton
Our pleasure and our duty,
Though opposite before,
Since we have seen His beauty
Are joined to part no more.
To see the law by Christ fulfilled
And hear His pard’ning voice,
Transforms a slave into a child,
And duty into choice.
-- from a hymn by John Newton (who also wrote the lyrics to “Amazing Grace”)
Did Satan not know of gods infinite wisdom? Did god not know of satans path as he created him? What I can't understand is why follow or change your path if this is the one you were created for?
Are you asking how can we have free will yet God knows what our choice will be? Or are you asking how can Gods will be done if we have free will?
No what I am saying is why not follow what you think is true if god gave you the mind to follow that premise... obviously you can understand that certain people have the ability to follow without question but if we were created with the ability to question... why not continue on that path? Even if you know god is real but he created your mind to disagree with his teachings are you truly wrong in questioning? Are you wrong in not following?
In general I think it is good to question, that’s how we learn. I don’t think we can know that anyone can follow God without moments of doubt or question. Why would you think God would create you to disagree with him. As John said above even demons believe in God and tremble. One can know God exists as the devil surely does, but refuse to follow due to pride. We are bent towards evil and want to be in charge of our lives. In real Christianity it’s not the good people go to heaven and the bad people go to hell. We are all bad. Those humble enough to acknowledge this and receive a free gift go to heaven and those too proud to admit this choose to be apart from God. C.S. Lewis said the gates of hell are locked from the inside. If you don’t see God’s love for you and his beauty by looking at Jesus sacrifice you will not choose him on earth, then you certainly won’t want him for all eternity.
Well if god created me I have the innate ability to analyze every claim and if these claims do not have substance than I reject them. Look I know you think I hate you or dislike you for what you believe but I do not. I was a believer, I sat with my best friend an atheist every night and preached to him. I gave him verse after verse. Yet he still denied so I decided to read the Bible cover to cover and I revisited books over and over yet once I started reading and understanding I knew this was built by man for man. I understand your faith and at times I wish I could just believe without good evidence, but I no longer can lie to myself! I cannot allow the hypocrisies to go unquestioned. We know as we grow that everyday new things are discovered, these things allow us to see more and more into our past. No god needed, its truly amazing when you can break free from this idea that we are bad, or evil..,
I can appreciate your point of view. I just don’t see how it aligns with reality. There is real evil in the world, I’ve witnessed terrible things. Atheism cannot justify why anything is terribly bad or good. Why do you think there is no substance to religious claims? Many highly intelligent atheists like Hitchens have admitted that there is good evidence. We tend to think of evidence as only one kind of thing, when in fact it is not. What kind of evidence of a supernatural being would you expect to find by only looking in the natural world?
No obedience is subjugation by force or threat. Cooperation is a choice.
Distinction without a difference.
For cryin' out loud. Anytime someone demands "obedience" through extortion it isn't a choice!
"How so? Obedience is a voluntary choice one makes, you are free to obey or not to obey. There are real consequences for both actions."
Is God not demanding we make a choice? How are we free if a deity created us and insists we behave only as it sees fit? Obedience can be a free a choice, but is erroneous to make the claim so sweeping as it is not always a choice. A mafia boss will threaten violence if you don't do as he demands, would you think a person facing such a "choice" is free in any real sense to make any choice they please? I'm not sure i agree with your assertion.
AJ777: "Only in obedience can we find freedom."
"War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, and Ignorance is Strength" --"1984", George Orwell
AJ777, you wrote, "Only in obedience can we find freedom."
Please describe this freedom. What does it consist of? What are its parameters?
Good I'm glad we got that out of the way but we are human... so we question things. Why follow god? What reason other than him commanding it do we follow? Please no word problems, no hyperboles just why should we follow?
Because humans have a problem called sin. I am broken and the chief of sinners. We cannot conform to our own moral standard perfectly. If you’ve once broken the law you are guilty. We owe a debt which Jesus has paid. It is a free gift he has offered to us. We follow God out of love and gratitide. Why do you love and show respect and obedience to your parents? Their sacrificial love.
Now you're just proselytizing!
No no no this is good... but if your parents even though they raised you, sacrificed for you, clothed you, paid for you to do what made you happy, gave birth to you... would you follow everything they asked? What if what they wanted conflicts with what you think is correct? Why throw yourself in the fire just to please them? Yes you can appreciate what they did for you but doesn't the next generation also learn what not to do from their parents?
AJ777, you wrote, "Why do you love and show respect and obedience to your parents? Their sacrificial love."
What if the people who were my parents demonstrated no substantive sacrificial love? What if I had no reason to love or respect them? What if they did horrible things?
"Because humans have a problem called sin"
Who decided this (for me)? Decided it before I was born and before I had done anything to warrant such a supernatural curse.
Your ancestors, are you then claiming to be morally perfect?
"We owe a debt which Jesus has paid."
I thought I was free to choose, when did I make the choice for him to do that for me? I'd have chosen for him not to of course, as the idea of torture and blood sacrifice for atonement is morally repugnant tot me. Maybe if a deity exists it really ought to have given me a choice and asked how I felt.
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