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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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These posts are just full of handwaving. Where are the logical or empirical arguments countering my proposition?
For the umteenth time...YOU, Dan, are the one making the assertions. Therefore, the onus is on YOU to evidence those assertions. NO ONE else is responsible for providing a damn thing.
Why is this so fucking difficult for you to wrap your mind around? Do you not get it or are you purposely lighting this fire as a diversion?
You are the one handwaving, and you are the one making claims. The rational objections to your verbiage are manifest by now, so stop pretending no one has countered your unevidenced irrational claims.
You have not demonstrated any objective evidence for any deity, and it is clear by now you have none.
Why is it you can consider the possibility we are made from god, but are unable to consider the universe as being the whole of existence? It seems that you are intent on assuming god's existence no matter what...which is why you make your other assumptions.
"There seem to be two scenarios:"
False dichotomy fallacy.
"Something from nothing is not possible, even with God's help."
Yet you can't evidence this claim, or your claim that a deity exists, so just how you claim to know what it can and cannot do is rather amusing. What would god's help be exactly? So far all you've managed to do is claim something that manifestly has happened, couldn't have happened without a deity, you might just as easily claim pixies did it, and define them as you have defined this fictional deity, and hey presto your argument has evidenced pixies.
"Everything has a start,"
"So God is timeless"
Fnarr, that gets funnier every time.
-----------------------------------------
"God has no sex, Its just conventional to call God 'him'."
Fnarr, funnier and funnier.
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"Prove it created time and the universe.
- Someone did and that someone is God by my definition (of God as the creator)"
You're kidding right? Even you must see how circular that is.
Yep, I said it in the other thread: it is a contradiction engine. Insert a coin, pull the level, and it just spits out as many contradictions as you want.
Special pleading. All the logic and rules you put out do not apply to this "god".
Dan, there is no good reason for an argument because you have not proven any of your points. You just assert and move on.
@Dan
You can't logic god into existence.
What objective evidence do you have for a god existing?
All of your so called evidence is from your mind. You need something from outside of your mind to prove a god is real.
Edit
I suggest that God be submitted to the scientific method.
I gave the evidence here:
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/does-everything-have-s...
I don't see any objective evidence for a god. All I see is subjective evidence from your mind.
Do you understand what objective evidence is?
All you did was throw a bunch of numbers out there and say god is real.
And I could not get past the first point without rejecting gross assumptions.
Your "proof" has more holes in it than a colander.
One more point: where did god come from?
"I gave the evidence here:"
No you didn't, so lets take another look shall we:
Dan
"1. If time had no start, it has no middle and end, so we would not be here. Hence time was created and probably by an intelligence
2. If the universe has been around for ever then it should be in thermodynamic equilibrium by now. But the universe is not in thermodynamic equilibrium, so time must have a start. Again that implies an intelligent creator
3. There is the fine-tuning of the multiverse for life which implies an intelligent creator
4. Why is there ‘something rather than nothing?’ Logically there should be nothing. The fact that there is anything at all is amazing and enough to invoke a Deity as a possible solution.
5. Various logical arguments (prime mover / necessary being) point to some sort of intelligent creator
So the above constitutes evidence in favour of the existence of ‘God"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Pure assumption, all you have done is use an argument from ignorance fallacy to insist something is created. No evidence at all.
2. Again you simply point to everything and claim "godidit", pure assumption and no evidence demonstrated.
3. The universe isn't fine tuned for life, and even if it were you'd still have to evidence it was created not simply assert it without evidence as you have done here, again.
4. Argument from ignorance fallacy again, how do you know nothing is even possible? How you apologists love to tack the word logic onto your verbiage, but again nothing can asserted as rationally valid if it contains a logical fallacy. All you've done at the end is point to everything and say "godididit" again, it's risible.
5. No they don't - Hitchens's razor applied, since again you have offered no evidence.
There is no objective evidence in that link at all.
[removed by moderator, read it here]
In regard to thermodynamic equilibrium, even with a start for the Universe it can be reached, so you know the hypothesis of Big Freeze for the late, very late Universe? Note that this is tied up with the expansion.
Yes the big freeze; if time did not have a start, and infinite amount of time has past, so we must have reached the big freeze. But we have not reached the big freeze, so a finite amount of time has past since the beginning of the universe, so time had a start.
"Basic logic dictates that everything real has a temporal and spacial start."
Except God according to you. So you're using a special pleading fallacy, thus your reasoning is risible. Have you had your paper published in anything approaching a peer reviewed publication? I can find nothing on any news networks asserting the existence of a deity has been evidenced. Whatever can the delay be?
This is not always true.
For example: when 1 is the additive identity; but again that is subtle.
Even with infinite trials there is no guarantee something that can happen will happen an infinite number of times. To get that result you need to add more constraints.
That isn't accurate, the 2nd law only tells us that it is unlikely in any interval for entropy to decrease.
Yeah, except that an infinite amount of information in a spacial volume of 1 cubic unit is already known to be wrong, so you need to discard that one.
You've told us that god doesn't not have a temporal start; so again you have contradicted yourself (unless you are arguing that god is not real).
I did not mention God in the paper. It is still under review.
Things that are not temporal don't need a temporal start, so God does not have a temporal state.
You've used a begging the question fallacy again, you can't use what you're arguing for in your argument for it, it's fallacious. Your initial claim isn't evidenced either, you are simply making assumptions. What's worse is you are refusing to even acknowledge the errors and flaws in your reasoning others are pointing out, so why come here if you're going to ignore the responses and have clearly made up your mind?
The best scientific minds and the best contemporary scientific evidence would not make the sweeping generalisations that you are, it's sad you can't see how risible it is, but even sadder you are refusing to listen to those you have sought out to tell your beliefs to.
You have not offered any objective evidence for a deity, that much is axiomatic.
"Things that are not temporal don't need a temporal start"
Sigh, how many non-temporal things did you test this on? Prior to the gig bang it was non temporal condition, so how did a universe start in a non-temporal condition?
BTW, here is a simple proof Eternalism is correct:
Eternalism is the belief that past present and future are real. The opposing view, Presentism posits that only now exists. I show that Presentism is wrong, thus Eternalism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternalism_(philosophy_of_time) ) is true:
1. Presentism posits that only now exists
2. Therefore only now always existed
3. Therefore time did not have a start
4. But if you take away the start (Monday) does the rest of the week (Tuesday...) still exist?
5. No, so time has a start
6. Hence Presentism is false
7. Hence Eternalism must be true
So we are all eternal beings :)
Told you God would look after us !
"we are all eternal beings "
No, we are all too finite.
Finite and Eternal (outside of time) we are; as is God. Think of us in 4d space time, we are like sausage creatures long and thin following our world line. We are permanent but finite.
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