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Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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@JazzTheist
Why is there air?
Same reason why there is bread, water, time, space, consciousness and rocks.
@JazzTheist
That is not an answer, that is evasion. Let us try again.
Why is there air?
If so, then you disagree with Dawkins and many top atheists here; because they love to answer in that particular structure.
But I digress. Air exists because something greater than air acted as a source of its existence.
I want to play too:
A̶i̶r God exists because something greater than a̶i̶r god acted as a source of its existence.
Illogical objection. God, by definition, is already the greatest being; the only non-contingent thing.
Jazz, you assert that your god is the greatest being and the only contingent thing. How do you come by this information? I think you must have just *decided* that’s the case since you’ve not provided any substantive evidence of it. If you actually want folks to consider your assertions, you should probably bring more to the table than your thoughts and feelings.
You already told us that everything is contingent:
Will you be retracting your claim that my objection was illogical now that you have backpedaled from your claim that everything is contingent? You know, how you pulled the rug out from under me by altering one of your postulates after I tried to use it?
I guess not.
@JazzTheist
"Air exists because something greater than air acted as a source of its existence."
And what was that "greater than air"?
@David Re: "And what was that "greater than air"?"
It was a God fart.... Duh!
It is something less contingent than air.
@JazzTheist
"It is something less contingent than air."
Now you are using the "special pleading" argument. Of course you cannot prove that your god deserves that status, you are just asserting it as an escape clause.
How do you know these qualities of this god you are attempting to define?
Because there's got to be an ultimate cause which is maximally non-contingent; which happens to fir the description of the God of classical theism. God is just the title I assign to the ultimate cause.
Why must there be an ultimate cause?
In classical theism, does this 'god' interact with the universe.
If so, demonstrate how something that is timeless, non-contingent and doesn't reside within our cosmos, can action within it.
Your objection doesn’t work, Demonstrate how it CAN’T.
The ultimate cause has the ability to do any possible action, since it has to provide existence for any possible action. It’s colloquially known as “omnipotence”.
You are the one making the claim, don't shift the burden of proof.
I'm still startled that you believe that once we reach an end of human knowledge in regards to natural causal regress, the explanation must be super natural.
This is touching on a clear black and white fallacy.
Even worse is that a first cause argument or argument from contingency relies on outdated Aristotelian causality and classical general relativity.
The universe is not classical, thus the argument falls.
@JazzTheist
"Because there's got to be an ultimate cause which is maximally non-contingent; which happens to fir the description of the God of classical theism. God is just the title I assign to the ultimate cause."
After reading that babble, god farts make more sense. There are probably more wild and unprovable assertions than words in that response.
@JazzySquid Re: "It is something less contingent than air."
Anti-air?
"Air exists because something greater than air acted as a source of its existence."
Evidence please...if being derided or insulted really bothers you, then endlessly making unevidenced claims is not the way you want to go, as most of the atheists on here have a low threshold of patience for that.
Sheldon: "as most of the atheists on here have a low threshold of patience for that."
And I can attest to this fact. However, I am learning. When it comes to patience, Sheldon here is my hero.
rmfr
Your testimony means nothing; for it’s anecdotal evidence. Provide physical evidence that Sheldon is a patient person.
(Sarcasm alert!)
@JazzTheist
Your testimony means nothing; for it’s anecdotal evidence. Provide physical evidence that Sheldon is a patient person.
(Sarcasm alert!)
OK, thanks for the heads up. Now bring on the sarcasm.
I’m just as equally patient (or impatient). You’ve been repeating yourselves all the time and I’m still here.
But I digress. Let me point out the flaws of your line of reasoning (no physical evidence=non-existent):
Do we have physical evidence that Hawking radiation exists? If not, then how can we say it’s more real than Cryptonites and magic?
Do we have physical evidence that Plato existed? If not, then how can we say that he was more real than Moses and Confucius?
Do we have physical evidence that an ultimate cause (aka God) exists? Yes—existence itself. If you deny a reason for existence, then there’s no reason to say that existence is real in the first place.
Yes, We have explained this to you.
It has a strong theoretical and mathematical grounding and has been proven within laboratory conditions.
This gives a strong indication that it can possible be found in the universe, given the funding, time and equipment.
This is down to levels of burden of proof, If I say I have a dog in my house, we can accept that this is possible.
If I say I have a dragon in my garage, that requires a higher level of proof.
David Killens,
"Why is there air?"
That is a good question. According to the biblical and Koranic fairy tales the God character made man out of dirt. If that is true then there should be no need for animals or things like air. As creatures of dirt we should be able to get all of our food and essentials simply by sticking a body part into the ground and get what we need. We wouldn't need animals, plants, air, farming, stores, cooking, etc. All we would need to do would be to simply stick a body part into the ground and be replenished. Wouldn't that be cool?
In the Bible Jealous gets off when he smells the aroma of roasting meat. What did he do for entertainment before creation? Were there any odors without air for him to breathe?
Didn't Tin-Man answer the question as to why there is air by saying the dog farted?
rmfr
@Arakish
God farts, dude..... God farts.
@ Tin-Man
Sorry. Dyslexia.
rmfr
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