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Alpenhorn are not the funnest thing either.
"Free of belief does sound better, but that tends to be associated with agnosticism does it not? When a regular person says they're agnostic, you get the notion that they don't believe anything, but they don't necessarily reject anything either."
I really don't understand why you keep making these false distinctions, atheism is not the rejection of belief, it is the lack of it. It might be considered the rejection of the claim that a deity or deities are real. One can be agnostic about a claim, but still reject it, and in doing so withhold belief.
" an adult which believes there's no such thing as politics, and no babies inside peaches, can't really claim to lack a belief."
That's because we don't have a word for people who believe those things are real if we did then the lack of those beliefs would be a*******. Amoral is the absence of morality, asexual if the absence of sexual feelings or desires, and atheism is the absence of theism which is the belief that a deity or deities are real.
"god isn't an entity that can do magic."
I agree, in order for a deity to be an entity objective evidence would have to be demonstrated for it's existence.
Well, hell... I told myself I was not going to get involved in this thread, but my dang impulses have finally gotten the better of me. Crap. *chuckle*
Honestly, I really have no idea how I would "classify" myself. And, quite frankly, I really don't give much of a hoot how others might classify me. Labels have never meant that much to me. I have "atheist" marked on my profile because it was the closest option for me to choose. Actually, before joining this site, I truly never knew there were so many different "sub-sets" or "variation" terms. (I've learned much over the past couple of months.) That being said, maybe somebody else out there could find the proper term for me if I simply say what I believe/don't believe. Here goes nothing...
For starters, I absolutely do not believe in God or Allah as they are depicted in their respective holy books. The entire concept that either one could be a real entity is totally ludicrous to me. Both from a logic standpoint and from my own moral views. They have about as much chance of being real as does Zeus, Odin, Thor, or any of the several thousand other gods/goddesses out there. (Which is to say, ZERO. Or as close to zero as one can get, at least.) And, as I have said before, even IF either or both or any were somehow ever proven to be real beyond any reasonable doubt, I would still refuse to worship them, regardless of the consequences. Although, I admit I would be more likely to show Zeus, or Odin, or Thor some amount of respect compared to God or Allah. (Still wouldn't worship any of them, though.) So, with that part out of the way, let's move on to part two...
I am an absolute FIRM BELIEVER that we (Mankind) do not know everything there is to know about our world or our universe. To me it feels ridiculous even having to make that statement. Therefore, when I hear somebody ask, "But how did the universe get started and how did we get here?" I do not understand why it is so complicated or difficult to accept the answer of, "I do not know." To me, that is a perfectly honest and legitimate answer. Doesn't mean we will NEVER know, it just means we do not know RIGHT NOW. And even if that answer is never found.... so what? Big deal. Just live your life, folks. Shouldn't be that complicated. Is there some highly advanced being or super-technologically advanced race that may have planted the seeds of mankind on our tiny little speck in the cosmos? Hell, I don't know. Maybe there is. Maybe there isn't. Either way, it does not affect my life here one way or the other. And even if there IS, we are of no more interest to it/them now than a child's ant farm that has been tossed in a corner and forgotten. And even IF it/they still have some amount of interest in us, I imagine we would be no more than a specimen under a scientist's microscope. But, again, these things have no affect on my life (that I can tell), so it is basically just fun and amusing to think about now and again.
I love the thought of multiple dimensions and wormholes and black holes and such. I do not even pretend to totally understand it all in their deeper levels, but in their general concepts and explanations they are intellectually fun for me to contemplate. Then again, I have always been rather nerdy like that.
So, with all these things in mind, it should be apparent that I am open to new ideas, and if there was ever any proof provided for the existence of a god or gods, then I suppose I would have to believe. But it would have to be DAMN GOOD proof, and it does not necessarily mean that I would worship it anyway. (I have bad knees. Makes it hard to kneel.)
Again, I do not know exactly how to "label" myself (atheist is simply used as a term of convenience), but anybody can feel free to give it a shot if you like. *chuckle*
@Tin-man:"I have bad knees. Makes it hard to kneel.
I feel your pain. I can kneel fine. But getting up again is hard. Too much kneeling on tatami mats I think.
@Algebe Re: Tatami mats
Spent some time in the Orient, did ya?
@Tin-man: "Spent some time in the Orient, did ya?"
Yep. Japan. It ain't Kansas, though most of the toilets are made by a company called Toto.
@Algebe Re: Toto
Well, the furry little guy had to do SOMETHING to make a living after the Oz movie. He really wasn't able to pick up any other acting gigs after that. They all wanted to type-cast him, and he just wasn't cool with that. So he started working as a plumber, and one thing led to another....
@TIn-man: "So he started working as a plumber"
If you ever see Toto, tell him his toilets need a little work. They're more complicated than the Zero-g toilet in "2001 A Space Odyssey". Toto toilets have control arms with lots of buttons like Captain Kirk's chair. If you push the wrong button, you get a hot-water phaser blast right up your Arc de Triomphe, or right in your face if you happen to be standing up. And if the installer hasn't wired it right, you could be sitting in an electric chair with your pants down.
@Algebe Re: Toto toilets
I'm afraid that may actually be intended design. That little rascal always did have a warped sense of humor. Guess that's why I always liked him so much. *grin*
True dat....
I am an atheist. I don't bother dicing it up any finer than that.
You don't have to dice it up, but I would like you to define it. Otherwise you might as well have said you're a Wugallop, and been just as informative.
I lack belief in any deity or anything supernatural for that matter. I have no reason to believe. Nothing convincing. No desire to be convinced.
So if I ask you whether you think God exists or not, you wouldn't be able to give a yes/no answer?
I say there are no gods and don't give a shit if that is not a falsifiable statement. I am not a theist , scientist, or philosopher.
I also don't care if its not a falsifiable statement. I care that its more honest and direct than your previous lacktheist position.
My goal is meeting my standard, not yours. I was honest in my first post.
Fair enough, I retract the honesty comment.
Point is you don't just lack a belief in a deity, you say there are no gods.
That is correct! I make a positive claim. I also state extraterrestrials have not visited the earth. No Santa Claus or Bigfoot. No Chupacabras.
So then what are your thoughts on lacktheism?
Lacktheism is your term. I am an atheist.
Its a great term though, you have to admit.
Yes! Good one. I like Apatheist too.
"Its a great term though, you have to admit."
No it isn't at all. If someone lacks morals they're defined as amoral not "lackmoral" (sic), if someone lacks sexual desire they're called asexual not "lacksexual" (sic). Why do religious apologists keep trying to redefine atheism to fit their own skewed view of what they think atheists are?
Like chimp, I am an atheist, when someone defines claims about their deity I can address each one to see it is unfalsifiable and I must remain agnostic about it. I would of course not believe a claim that was unfalsifiable, as there is no way to test whether it is false.
@John. Re: Lacktheism
Okay, I'll bite (out of curiosity). What is lacktheism? (If you explained it somewhere else I missed it.)
An atheist that "lacks theism"
@John Re: Lacktheism
Ah. Oh... Umm.. Okay. Thanks. Uh, you'll have to give me a minute to wrap my head around that one. lol (Is kinda catchy, though.)
Well you sometimes encounter a person which insists all atheism is, is a "lack of belief" in God, not an assertion that they "don't believe" God exists. In other words that atheists don't NOT believe God exists.
I call them lacktheists.
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