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This is argumentum as ignorantiam. Even allowing that it is true, how did this evidence a deity rather than one culture making discoveries before others?
Ask yourself this, what would it take for you to disbelieve any deity exists?
If a claim can't be falsified in someway, even if it is false, then it's worthless. It's what scientists revert to as not even wrong.
If anyone cares this is a good site that has at least 17 English translations of the Koran fairy tale. It's user friendly and has other languages as well. http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/51:43
Diotrephes,
Fantastic!
I wonder why atheist can't answer my question and go in to other things. So simple if you can think, Who could have mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago all that I mentioned above?
Tasnim Mohammed,
Just remember that Mohammed had lice.
He thought that when the Sun went below the horizon that it went into a muddy pond, which is why things became dark for hours until it came up out of the pond and restored light to the world for a few hours.
He said that when people had sex if the woman climaxed first then the child would look like her. If the man climaxed first then the child would look like him.
He snored like a camel.
He said that you should drink camel milk mixed with camel piss when you get sick. It'll cure you.
He said that Satan sleeps in your nose at night.
Mohammed was always forgetting parts of the Koran that he had just made up. That was embarrassing.
Mohammed could produce gallons of water from his fingers. But he couldn't turn it into wine like Jesus could.
Every time Mohammed ate his food would sing praises to Allah. Does your food do that when you eat it?
Remember that most of the people in hell will be women. After a lifetime of wearing a sack and hood that's what they get. No happy afterlife for them. That really sucks, doesn't it? But that's what those cute boys will be doing to the guys with eternal hard-ons in paradise.
Mohammed got scared shitless when there was an eclipse. He thought that it was Judgment Day and that he was going to hell.
Mohammed said that if you fall asleep while praying Satan will piss in your ears. Get some video of that.
Mohammed said that you pray with your eyes looking up that your eyeballs will be snatched out of your head. You can test that today. I'm sure that he was lying.
Tasnim,
At least some of the ancient Greeks accepted that the moon shone by reflected sunlight. Should we credit them with divine knowledge or just good thinking? As for the water cycle, it doesn't take a modern scientist to understand that water, as steam, rises up and that water, as rain, falls down, that rivers must be replenished, that the sea does not overflow. To grasp the fullness of it might require some special insight in a ancient mind, but you can find that much in the Bible.
Tasnim Mohammed,
These questions all have answers, it's just a matter of putting in some study. I've given several answers to these questions and, if I find the time, I may give you additional answers. (If you have a favorite question I'll try to give it priority.) Keep in mind that modern interpretations of the Quran can feed in modern biases. You see it in the NIV translation of the Bible, and many of the quotations you have given us look suspicious and need to be carefully examined to see if they are true to the older, pre-scientific manuscripts. Some of your questions/comments are based on a confusion about scientific matters.
I wonder why you think your question matters,since it's a logically fallacious appeal to ignorance?
Look up argumentum ad ignorantiam
It seems to be the favourite common logical fallacy for theists and religious apologists of all stripes.
@ Tasnim
You are suffering from a religious condition called "hindsight bias", it is curable by reading actual scientific stuff.
All your claims have been debunked. I don't propose to complete your education. There are plenty of books and scholarly articles that debunk your claims. And debunked they will be by those on this forum.
The question I will ask you, if you take these claims of yours as true ; do you also believe in the truth of Adam and Eve and Noah's Flood? The Flying Horse?
(edited to include "hindsight bias")
"1- Can you create something out of nothing?"
The BlindWatchMaker makes an excellent point. The questioner simply ASSUMES that his idea of absolute nothing is a coherent concept free of any contradictions and, more importantly, that it can apply to reality. As far as we know, empty space (or space-time) with its quantum fluctuations is as nothing as nothing can be in reality. You can't just assume that another kind of "nothing" exists before everything else.
Think about it. How would we run the movie backwards to get to absolute nothing? It boggles the mind and is probably a confused concept. If it doesn't apply to reality, then there never could have been a time of absolute nothing. Time, itself, is part of the space-time fabric which is certainly "something." The idea that there was this magnificent state of nothing and that, one day, God decided to create something, is pure confusion! Muddled thinking!
As far as seeing energy, why should we expect to directly see energy? Isn't it enough to see a needle move on an instrument, watch an apple fall, or warm up in the sunshine? It may be that energy itself doesn't even have an independent existence! In that view it would be like debits and credits. Can you point to a debit or credit? Other than as an abstract bookkeeping device, a credit or debit has no independent existence. Thus, you would not expect to see the potential energy of a coiled spring existing in splendid isolation. You need the spring, and its potential energy is more like a bookkeeping thing. If I'm not mistaken, observers in different reference frames can, under the right conditions, come up with different energies for an object. Perhaps Nyarlathotep can say something more definitive. That suggests that energy is more like debits and credits, depending on other things, and that any request to "see" it directly is a foolish confusion.
@tasnim
Can you prove that a god is real? Can you prove that it is the god you worship?
@xenoview
On the personal or individual level, one doesn’t have to venture far to realize that God does exist. Just look into yourself, you don’t have to be a scientist but if you are then you’ll appreciate more the construction of the body; how it is made up of many cells. One cell becomes a cell for sight and the other for hearing; it’s amazing. How does the brain operate? The circulatory system? The digestive system? The nervous system? Such coordination and beauty [is shown through their functioning]. This shows that these things didn’t come to be in a haphazard way, there must have been a deliberate design behind them. So if you want to find God then look into yourself. The Quran says, “By looking into yourselves, you will find evidence to the presence and powers of God.”
@Tasnim Mohammed
Ah the complex design argument that people try to use to prove a designer. So often used and unoriginal it deserves a copy and paste answer.
1st.
Even if what you said was 100% true, it in no way proves your particular god, or any god at all. Just some sort of "intelligent designer." Which could just as easily be long dead intelligent aliens.
2nd:
That was a good argument prior to Darwin when people had no idea how life came about. Darwin showed that complex organisms evolve from simpler ones by purely natural processes, without the need for a more complex designer. It is important to note that Darwinian evolution implied many predictions that could have been falsified but were not. For example, evolution requires that the sun and Earth are much older than seemed possible at the time from physics. It was not until the twentieth century, with the discovery of nuclear fusion as the source of energy for the sun, that this problem was solved.
In physics as well as biology, simplicity begets complexity. A beautiful snowflake comes from unstructured water vapor. The notion that intelligent design is necessary for the complexity of the universe is completely wrong.
The above 2nd point above was copy and pasted to here with permission from Victor Stenger.
@Tasnim Mohammed,
The "design" of the human body is also packed full of evidence for evolution! Such things as vestigial organs and certain clumsy constructions do not point to a gifted engineer who, one day, sat down and designed man. We can actually trace back to a time of human-like apes, and before them monkeys. Evolution is fully capable of marvelous complexity. Read Richard Dawkin's "The Blind Watchmaker."
Therefore, the human body is actually an argument AGAINST a divine creator!
Our bodies only show that our creator is flawed.
@LogicforTW
1.Glad to know that you can think of an intelligent designer that is not a scientist?
2. In regards to Darwinism and evolution check this out
https://youtu.be/sonEvHTc59c
@Tasnim Mohammed
1. Sure I can think of plenty of intelligent designers that is not a scientist. Especially when we do not have to consider any real world evidence for them. The list can be as long as my imagination is, and my patience to type each one out.
2. I apologize, but I almost never watch youtube videos, if you can give me a short break down of what that video says, I will be happy to respond to it.
@Tasnim Mohammed,
Normally I don't go through off-site materials as I assume that anyone making a claim should take the responsibility for marshaling his or her own facts and arguments. I did take a quick look at this youtube presentation. Right off the bat this fellow shows his profound ignorance of science and simple fact. Many books do point out that the basic idea of animals and plants evolving over time is a fact. His emphasis on the word "theory" is what shows him to be a scientific ignoramus. "Theory," as used in the scientific world, refers to an idea that has survived extensive testing, that unites a significant body of otherwise loose facts, and that has set a foundation for fruitful research. "Theory," as used in the scientific world, does not mean "half-baked" or "guesswork" as it does in common usage. After that I stopped listening to him. Why waste time on an idiot? He is the Islamic version of Kent Hovind who logged hundreds of debates in his futile and unscientific effort to overthrow evolution.
You can find all kinds of books that attack evolution, including a rather large, fancy one circulating in the Arabic world, but these books are written with extreme prejudice and aimed at people who know little or nothing about science! Real scientific journals, such as "Nature" or "Science" take evolution as a fact. Their arguments are about secondary details. Go to any serious university website (in those places where it is not a crime to do real science) and you will not find a debate over the basic FACT of evolution. Many of them will give you a fascinating tutorial about evolution, so why don't you put in a little study?
@ Tasnim
"2. In regards to Darwinism and evolution check this out
https://youtu.be/sonEvHTc59c"
Hilarious. Doesn't even know what a scientific theory actually is. Couldn't watch anymore i was laughing too hard.
Then you missed the funniest part where he claimed that Homo-sapiens died out 500,000 years ago!
Thank you for your response.
What is theory?
the·o·ry
ˈTHirē/
noun
noun: theory; plural noun: theories
a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.
"Darwin's theory of evolution"
@Tasnim
I explained "scientific theory" already. I guess you are not listening which would explain why I get almost no responses from you.
Got more questions call 877 whyislam or join online forum and post your questions
http://forum.whyislam.org/default.asp
@Tasnim
More riddles employing the god-of-the-gaps thinking? More anecdotal stories? More 20-20 hindsight about modern science in the Quran? More aimless quoting from the Quran? Thanks, but I'll pass. I've seen enough already.
@greensnake
I apologise my dear brother I forget to respond to your question, "why don't you put in a little study?"
The response is that I did learn it at school and it didn't even make any sense to me when the teacher said that we have common ancestors with primates. You as an atheist I hope we will have a better discussion in this since you believe in and have better knowledge in it than me.
My problem was understanding what that common ancestor was because at first I used to hear that scientist said we evolved from monkeys but my teacher said that was wrong.
The problem I have is what is that common ancestor?
Did we evolved from apes and now we are homo sapiens?
Saying that we share common ancestor and we evolved from apes to homo sapiens confused me.
Allah says, " If ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message. 21:7
Since I need to understand this, I would to ask you atheists as the people who have knowledge about this.
Maybe this picture will help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape#Historical_and_modern_terminology
Attachments
Attach Image/Video?:
Tasnim Mohammed,
"My problem was understanding what that common ancestor was because at first I used to hear that scientist said we evolved from monkeys but my teacher said that was wrong."
Our common ancestor was a worm. All animals are just worms in specialized bodies. Humans have brain cells in their guts. Over time the worms adapted to the various environments and then became true animals. In between time they evolved into different branches of the animal kingdom but kept their essential body, which is our digestive tract.
https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2013/12/13/comb-jellies/
Tasnim Mohammed,
This is scientific knowledge which is accepted by scientists, be they religious or atheist.
Think of evolution as a big bush with lots of branches coming out of a trunk. The leaves on the tips of those branches are the species living today. If you start at any two leaves, you can follow them down the branches of the bush until they meet. That point would be the common ancestor of those two lines (branches) of evolution. (The closer you are to the base of the bush the further back you have gone in time.)
As of about 10 years ago this was the situation. Apes, monkeys, and lemurs belong to an old order of mammals called the "primates." Old world monkeys and apes belong to the group called "hominoids." (The New World monkeys belong to another group.) That takes in gibbons, orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, and we humans. (We are both part of the order "primates" and also we are hominoids. Within the hominoids we are part of a sub-group of apes commonly known as the Great Apes. We have a lot of different evolutionary ancestors depending on how back on the bush you wish to go.)
Objectively speaking, based on genetic evidence, we humans should be grouped in the family Pongidae (gorillas, chimpanzees, and orangutans) but human vanity (a problem even scientists have) has given us humans a separate family, the "Hominidae" which is popularly referred to as the "hominids." In this family we are the only surviving member, but there have been a number of hominids found in the fossil record. At least one of them, Neanderthal, coexisted with us humans for a time. Indeed, genetic evidence makes it clear that they intermarried to some extent! A lot of people, perhaps yourself, have a small percentage of Neanderthal genes!
It is thought that the hominids diverged from chimpanzees and bonobos about 5-7 million years ago. We humans have a lot of evolutionary ancestors depending on how far down the evolutionary bush you want to go. If you wish to go back to the start of the hominid line, then hominids and chimpanzees/bonobos probably started evolving their separate ways about 7 million years ago. The point of that divergence on the evolutionary bush would be called the common ancestor of hominids and chimpanzees/bonobos. If you call hominids "humans," then primitive humans diverged from that branch of the apes 7 million years ago.
If you want a more recent ancestor, then it would be one of the hominids. However, the relationship between the various hominids, considering that some have yet to be discovered in the fossil record, has not been totally worked out. So, stay tuned to the latest discoveries in anthropology!
We have a common ancestor with monkeys, but we did not evolve from monkeys! The monkey and ape branches on the evolutionary bush come out of the primate branch. If we start with the leaf representing a modern monkey, and a leaf representing Homo sapiens, we can trace down the evolutionary bush to a common point--the common ancestor of monkeys and humans. However, humans did not evolve from monkeys since we evolved from the ape branch, and the ape and monkey branches are two different branches branching off from the primate branch. Don't blame you if you find it a little confusing!
To look at it another way, by the time we follow the Homo sapiens and monkey branches back to a common ancestor, we are in primate-land, not monkey-land. However, our branch on the evolutionary bush does pass through ape-land.
"humans did not evolve from monkeys since we evolved from the ape branch"
Thank you for your answers.
Well another question will rise saying that if we evolved from apes what made us evolve to human and some still are not humans?
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