Hi Folks,
Back! This time im totally pissed OFF. Yes you heard that right!.
2 days ago i was at the book library looking for a book to read, Checked the Scientific and Psychics area and this guy walked in to me asking what im looking for and i thought hey! Great he's working here so that's pretty helpful. Turns out he's not and he was just looking for someone to talk to.
He asked me what im looking for and i said. Just looking around! I couldn't tell him that im an Atheist and Anti-Theism.
The guy was asking a lot of question and pushing the buttons and we were at book library for fuck sake. Shut it up already. As he kept asking me i had honestly to just let it out and whispered in his ear saying I'M AN ATHEIST. I promise you this the guy's reaction is speechless! He looked behind him and looked back at me and says "Did you say Atheist?" I said Yes. Atheist and Anti-Theism.
He froze like a statue as they don't usually get to see a Moroccan Atheist walking to a book library looking for something to read. I put my life in danger when he asked me to debate him outside in the lobby and lighten up his ideas and educate him more. In fact he was well Moroccan educated. DUH! Means they taught him what they really want him to know. LOL Poor guy wasted his entire life on a false education.
I took a risk and went there and we start talking. We have randomly talked about the creation and the existent of GOD. Where did all this come from etc..!!
He asked me a lot of questions but i'll mention 3 of them following my answers. I promise he interrupted me the entire time and i can barley speak.
1- Can you create something out of nothing?
My answer was YES/NO. You can't create something out of nothing. And you can create something out of nothing.
In order to contemplate the universe creating itself from nothing, you must first accept the proposition that something can be created from nothing . That is tenable only in the quantum realm, so applying it to the universe presumes a quantum scale for the universe. If we track the big bang backward to a stage when it was less than an atomic diameter, then the whole universe must be treated by quantum mechanical methods. At a scale far below the size of a nucleus, if we envision the universe as proceeding from a singularity, you would have a sizzling sea of quarks, with particles and antiparticles continually being created and annihilating one another. Nothing comes from nothing
2- Do you feel the energy? Can you see it?
My answer was Yes i can feel someone else's energy when i shake their hand or touch their body but i can't see it with my own eye but you can still See/Detect it using third party tools.
3- Can you see Gravity?
You can't see or 'feel' gravity because your nervous system is differential. Unless you are skydiving and jumping from the sky! Which your body feels less lighter than when you are on the ground.
The guy was pretty much asking me questions he thought i wouldn't be able to answer then i asked him the same question and the only one.
1- Can you create something out of nothing?
He's answer was NO you can't create something out of nothing but GOD was always there!!!!!!!!!!
FOR FUCK SAKE! I have given you an answer following with an example and you telling me GOD was always fucking there? Proof it don't tell me he's there unless you have a scientific evidence of his existence.
Religions are OK with God coming from nothing but not the universe? Are you For real?
Later We have got into religious topics and Next i have asked him a very awkward question:
2- Would you marry a 6 years child?
He quickly reacted FUCK NO THAT'S DISGUSTING WHO WOULD DO THAT.
Then it hit me! He doesn't know that he's Prophet Muhammad married Aisha at the age of 6! I Grabbed him quickly without saying a word. Looked for Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236 :and showed him this very marked proof of Muhammad marrying a child at the age of 6.
"Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old." Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236 :
https://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_5_58.php
His reaction? Was like "SO WHAT? IT'S HIS WIFE! HE CAN DO WHATEVER HE WISHES"
I promise i throw up a little in my mouth and i told him so! Then i got quickly angry at him for being a hypocrite for what he says earlier.
FUCK NO THAT'S DIGUSTING WHO WOULD DO THAT.
He didn't wanna admit that Muhammad was a child molester and he was wrong in the first place and needed to apologize for being hypocrite.
Couldn't listen to his non sense explanations and just walked away for being late for the train.
My question to Muslims is:
ARE YOU FUCKING DUMB? FOR REAL, ARE YOU?
You criticize and prosecute anyone who marries girls at the age of 14 or less but it's okay for your Fake ASS Prophet Muhammad to Marry a 6 years CHILD?
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SUPERNOVA,
It's a Middle Eastern thing common to both Arabs and Jews. The Jewish Babylonian Talmud says that David knocked up Bathsheba when she was 6 years old. The Jewish Babylonian Talmud has whole essays detailing sex with toddlers, three year olds. And the age of consent was 7 in America in 1895.
"And the age of consent was 7 in America in 1895."
Only one state (Delaware) had the age of consent as 7 in 1880. All the other states set the age of consent at 10 or 12. Shockingly low by contemporary standard nonetheless, and the next time someone tries to claim sexual abuse of minors is on the increase it might be worth pointing this out.
By comparison England set it at 12 years old in 1275, the first time an age of consent had been set in England. However, in 1875 the Offence Against the Persons Act raised it to 13 in Great Britain and Ireland.
****The Criminal Law Amendment Act of 1885 raised it to 16.***
So the US was comparatively low when compared with some other western sovereign states.
I'm going to call B.S. on this one. A 6 year old getting pregnant? And she was running the household while her husband was away at war? Wuh? Sounds like anti-Jewish propaganda by the Zeitgeist folks who hate facts and truth even more than Trump.
Sadly there are cases where 6 year olds have gotten pregnant. Very rare, and usually requires a genetic anomaly, but it has unfortunately happened. However almost never in these cases of very young pregnant girls, does the pregnancy result in a healthy baby that makes it to natural birth, especially considering: back then there was no caesarean section procedure. If the very young pregnant girls body did not naturally abort early in the pregnancy process, it also usually resulted in the death of the young girl as well as the baby.
Again, the incredible hypocrisy and general barbaric practices of bronze age religion fairy tales, makes it astounding anyone with the free flow of knowledge available today ever even begin to consider these religions as the "ultimate truth."
Hey there, Glacier.
Good to see you back. Staying safe out there, I hope. Hey, I was wondering if you have had a chance to read any of the "Armed Teachers? You decide." thread. As you seem to be law enforcement yourself (unless that is some sort of generic cut-paste pic), I would be interested in hearing your views and any feedback you may have to offer. Meanwhile, stay frostie and watch your six out there.
Glacier,
"I'm going to call B.S. on this one. A 6 year old getting pregnant?"
You can call bull shit all you want but I never bull shit. But if you ever want to read some pure bull shit then read the Jewish Babylonian Talmud.
This is what it says about Bathsheba getting knocked up by the pervert King David of biblical fame when she was six years old.
Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Sanhedrin
Sanhedrin 69b
"Now, whence do we know that in the earlier generations [a boy of eight years] could beget children? Shall we say since it is written: [i] [And David sent and inquired after the woman, And one said:] Is not this Bath Sheba, the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite?7 And it is written, [ii] Eliam, the son of Ahitophel the Gilonite;8 and it is written, [iii] And he sent by the hand of Nathan the prophet; and he called his name Jedidiah [afterwards Solomon] because of the Lord;9 and it is written, [iv] And it came to pass, after two full years [after Solomon's birth], that Absalom had sheepshearers;10 and it is written, [v] So Absalom fled and went to Geshur and was there three years;11 and it is written [vi] So Absalom dwelt two full years in Jerusalem, and saw not the king's face;12 and it is written, [vii] And it came to pass after forty years, that Absalom said unto the king, I pray thee, let me go and pay my vow, which I have vowed unto the Lord in Hebron; and it is written,13 [viii] And when Ahitophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he saddled his ass, and arose, and got him home to his house, to his city and put his household in order, and hanged himself;14 and it is written, [ix] Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days.15 And it has been taught: Doeg lived but thirty-four years, and Ahitophel thirty-three. Hence deduct seven years, Solomon's age when [Ahitophel] committed suicide,16 which leaves [Ahitophel] twenty-six years old at his birth. Now deduct two years for the three pregnancies, leaving each eight years old when he begot a child.17 But why so? Perhaps both [Ahitophel and Eliam] were nine years old [at conception], Bath Sheba being only six years when she conceived, because a woman has more [generative] vitality; the proof being that she bore a child before Solomon?18"
http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_69.html
*NOTE: the numbers are footnotes. Every passage in the Talmud is loaded with footnotes.
7. II Sam. XI, 3.
8. Ibid. XXIII, 34.
9. Ibid. XII, 25.
10. Ibid. XIII, 23.
11. Ibid. 38.
12. Ibid. XIV, 28.
13. Ibid. XV, 7.
14 Ibid. XVII, 23.
15. Ps. LV, 24. This is quoted in support of the next statement that Ahitopel did not reach thirty-five, half the normal span.
16. This is arrived at by comparing verses iv, v and vi: Absalom slew Amnon two years after Solomon's birth (iv); he was exiled for three years (v); he then lived two years in Jerusalem before his rebellion (vi), in consequence of which Ahitophel hanged himself soon after (viii). Hence, Solomon was seven years old at the time.
17. For Ahitopel begat Eliam (ii), Eliam begat Bath Sheba (i), and Bath Sheba begat Jedidiah, i.e., Solomon (iii). Now even allowing only seven months for each pregnancy, these three must have taken nearly two years (Rashi tries to prove that it would take exactly two years, by allowing an additional month in each case for pre-conception menstruation and purification; but this is difficult, and it is preferable to assume with Tosaf. that the two years are approximate). Thus twenty four years are left for the three generations, giving eight years for each: Ahitopel must have been eight years at the conception of Eliam; Eliam eight years at the conception of Bath Sheba; Bath Sheba eight years at the conception of Solomon.
18. So that in any ease we are bound to assume a lower age for her conception.
Footnotes 7-14 refer to verses in 2 Samuel chapters in Roman numerals and verses in Arabic numbers.
"1- Can you create something out of nothing?"
I always enjoy this question by theists, one to which I tend to reply with "give me an example of absolute nothing". Once a gentleman closed his hand and said "there's nothing in there", which was at the least highly amusing! But it tends to be directed at the cosmos or the big bang for that matter, But it must be countered with, describe nothing, Give one example of true nothingness.
I wager no one could truly describe such a thing.
They also tend to mention this question in regards to the big bang, more to the point, the singularity.
This is a prediction of the big bang theory and not that model itself, which is the grave mistake it must be said.
There is difference between the big bang model and the big bang as an event which offers predictions.
"2- Do you feel the energy? Can you see it?"
This needs to be defined better, but yes you can feel to a certain context.
i.e. x-rays from the sun or from an x-ray (to a far lesser degree) will warm you up.
But the question is far too vague.
"3- Can you see Gravity?"
You can see the effect of gravity, if the person in question disagrees you could challenge them to jump out of a 10th floor window.
Also consider that our eyes are not as brilliant as some theists at least will have you believe, Yes one would concede that they are lovely instruments with a good range and can detect close to an individual photon.
However, they are not evolved to detect electromagnetism.
@ TheBlindWatchmaker "I always enjoy this question by theists, one to which I tend to reply with "give me an example of absolute nothing". Once a gentleman closed his hand and said "there's nothing in there", which was at the least highly amusing! But it tends to be directed at the cosmos or the big bang for that matter, But it must be countered with, describe nothing, Give one example of true nothingness.
I wager no one could truly describe such a thing."
A quick definition search of "nothing" provides : not anything; no single thing.
When many people think of deep space, and assume that between the galaxies where there is very little of any atoms, that is nothing. But even in that incredibly remote location, there is a lot going on. Light photons are traveling through this region, there can be magnetic fields, radiation, warped space time, a whole slew of phenomena of activity. Even time marches on in the deepest reaches of space.
So "nothing" is not only the complete absence of physical matter, it is also the complete absence of light, warped space time, even quantum entanglement is impossible.
"Nothing" is an intellectual abstract concept because it can never be measured or examined. You cannot even apply math to it. It is not outside of our known universe, it is the absolute absence of everything we know and can imagine, of even time and imaginary pixies.
This is a profound concept, it took me a long time to wrap my head around this idea.
Thank you, That is essentially what I was trying to allude to.
There is no way of demonstrating absolute nothing, it hasn't been observed nor proven.
Still in some circles space is thought of by some as nothing, in actuality its better to consider it as the medium in which particles can move.
But it does appear to be something many apologists like to use, And again, mostly in describing the big bang as an event and not the model.
Energy differences yeah; put your hand on a hot stove!
:P
Yes, MUSLIMS are for "FUCKING REAL." and they will kill you to prove it., Unfortunately. sand dwellers do not have the advantage of a modern industrial society that has dragged them kicking and screaming out of their Mosques and into the light of day where their belief systems can be seen clearly. This also explains the difference between Muslims who join organizations like ISIS and those living in modern countries like Malaysia or Turkey. There are degrees of ignorance in the Muslim faith just as there are degrees of ignorance in the Christian faith. It is after all the Nigerian Christians that are driving spikes into or pouring boiling water over the heads of Children possessed by Satan. They are also still burning witches in several African states. It is only in the west that the hedonistic impulses of the Christian faith have been suppressed. Unfortunately we are not yet having the same effect on the Muslims that have come to join us. Problems are arising.
The first question ask to the atheist is that suppose there is an equipment, there is a machinery which no one in the world has ever seen before if it's brought in front of you [atheist] and if we ask the question to him that who will be the first person, who will be able to tell you the mechanism of this machinery or this object ?
When did you come to know about this creation of the universe?
So he will tell you about 30-40 years back when scientists has discovered this.
You ask him the question what you're talking about the Big Bang is already mentioned in the Quran in Surat Al-Anbiya [Chapter 21], verse 30 “Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the Earth were a joint together and we clove them asunder.”
What you're talking about the Big Bang is already mention in the Quran 1400 years ago.
Who could have mention that ?
The light of the Moon is it its own light or reflected light?
So the atheist will tell us, previously we thought the Moon has its own light. Recently we come to know in science. Recently means 100 years back, 200 years back, we have come to know that the light of the Moon is not its own light but a reflected light.
The Quran mentions 1400 years ago in Surah Al-Furqan [Chapter 25], Verse 61. That “Blessed is He who had placed the constellation in the skies and placed therein a lamp [a Sun] having its own light and the Moon having reflected light or borrowed light.” The Arabic word used for moonlight in the Quran is ‘Muneer or Noor’ meaning reflected light or borrowed light.
Who could have mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago? That the light of the Moon is not its own light but reflected light. ?
What's the shape of this Earth on which we live?
The atheist will tell you. It's spherical.
When did we come to know ?
So he will tell us, it was 1597, Sir Francis Drake when he sail around the Earth that he proved that the Earth was spherical.
But the Quran says 1400 years ago in Surah An-Nazi'at [Chapter 79], Verse 30 “Thereafter we have made the Earth egg shaped”. The Arabic word 'Dhahaha' one of its meaning is The Earth is an expanse, the other meaning is arrived from the Arabic word 'Dhuiyah'. Which means an egg and it doesn't refer to a normal egg. It refers to the egg of an Ostrich and we know the world is not completely round like a ball but it is Geospherical in shape.
Who could have mentioned 1400 years ago that the shape of the Earth is geospherical ?
When I was in school, I had learned the Sun was stationery it revolved, but it did not rotate about its own axis.
So they atheist may say, Is that mention in Quran?
I say No, what I learned in school. I had learned the Sun was stationery, did not rotate about its own axis.
But the Quran says in Surah Al-Anbiya [Chapter 21], Verse 33 “It is Allah who has created the night and day, the Sun and the Moon, each one traveling in orbit with own motion.”
So the Quran says that besides the Sun revolving it even rotates about its own axis.
Who could have mentioned this in the Quran 1400 years ago ?
Today science tells us that the universe is expanding. Which is mentioned in the Quran 1400 years ago in Surah Adh-Dhariyat [Chapter 51], Verse 47.
The Quran speaks about the water cycle which we learn in school. It was Bernard Palissy in 1580, who first described the water cycle. How does the water evaporate from the ocean, Forms into clouds, moves into the interior and falls down as rain.
This water cycle spoken about in great detail in the Quran in several verses.
In Surah Az-Zumar [Chapter 39], Verse 21. In Surah Ar-Rum [Chapter 30], Verse 24. In Surah Al-Hijr [Chapter 15], Verse 22. In Surah Al-Mu'minun [Chapter 23], Verse 18. In Surah An-Nur [Chapter 24], Verse 43. In Surah Ruum [Chapter 30], Verse 48. In Surah Ahraf [Chapter 7], Verse 17. In Surah Furkhaan [Chapter 25], Verse 48-49. In Surah Fathir [Chapter 35], Verse 09. In Surah Yaseen [Chapter 36], Verse 34. In Surah Mulk [Chapter 67], Verse 30. In Surah Thariq [Chapter 86], Verse 11.
There are hundreds verse in the Quran which only speaks about the water cycle which science has discovered r recently [in this centuries].
We can keep on talking…
Today we have come to know that the plants have got sex. Which we did not know earlier.
Quran says in Surah Ta-ha [Chapter 20], Verse 53, that the plants gave got sexes male and female.
Today we have come to know that there two types of water. Sweet and salty and there is a barrier between them.
Which is mention in Quran in Surah Al-Furqan [Chapter 25], Verse 53 and Surah Ar-Rahman [Chapter 55], Verse 17 and 18 “It is Allah who has let free two types of flowing water though they meet they not mixed, there is a barrier between them.”
Today science tells us that it is the mountains which prevent the Earth from shaking.
Which is mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago in Surah An-Naba [Chapter 78], Verse 6 and 7.
The Quran speaks about Biology that 'We have created every living creature from water”. In Surah Al-Anbiya [Chapter 21], Verse 30. Quran mentions this 1400 years ago.
Quran speaks about Zoology about the life style of the spider in Surah Al-Ankabut [Chapter 29], Verse 41.
About the Ant in Surah An-Naml [Chapter 27], Verse 17-18.
About the Bee in Surah An-Nahl [Chapter 16], Verse 66, 68, 69.
Quran speaks about Embryology in Surah Al-Alaq [Chapter 96], Verse 1 and 2, “We have created the human been from Alakah [a leach like substance].” Which we have come to know recently.
Quran speaks about Embryological stages in Surah Al-Mu'minun [Chapter 23], Verse 12–14.
You can go on talking about the scientific points. There are more than 1000 verses in the Quran which speaks about science. After every scientific fact, you ask the question.
WHO COULD HAVE MENTIONED IN THE QURAN [1400 YEARS AGO] ?
The only reply the atheist can give you is “The Creator, The Manufacturer, The Inventor, The Producer”.
“This Creator, This Manufacturer, This Inventor, This Producer”.
WE MUSLIMS CALL HIM ‘ALLAH’.
****Please there are many words in English that we can communicate without using bad words and vulgarity.****
Let it be discussion of logic not discussion of convincing each other.
Thank you.
It amazes me when religious fundamentalists refer to their man-written book as some kind of divine insight which, they believe, proves the existence of an invisible source of all things. "My book says the earth is a sphere!" "My book says there are seasons!" My book says there would be good and bad!" "My book says that water is good!" Blah, blah, blah.
Yet, they still can't prove their book is inspired by anyone but the people who wrote it.... men, humans, guys, people. Most of them common, uneducated, regular folks. If I remember reading correctly, didn't the big "M" change his story several times after different visits to see Gabe? Why was what was divine the first time no longer divinely inspired the next? That always confused me.
Being an expert on a book written by humans is easy - just read the book, memorize, come up with rational that makes it feel special and divine and perpetuate the story to others for a couple centuries and kill people who disagree or question your authority or your book or the supposed author(s). Nice gig.
Now, eliminate your book and prove anything that is supernatural, divine, metaphysical, magic, spiritual, etc. - go ahead, prove any of it. Prove your god exists without your book. Like Christians - or any other religious group - no man-written book, no more words, nothing left to say.
But, this is so hard for folks who've been drinking the water for any period of time to see.
And, I like all words - there is no such thing as sin and therefore, If the word shit or ass or fuck or whatever fits better than anything else, I'm gonna use 'em. I need no invisible editor for what I'm thinking or writing, thank you very much.
If you don't like what words can do or express - live in a theocracy where you're not allowed to use them except to agree with those in power who want to control every part of your life and who will kill you for coloring outside the lines.
Not sorry... love my words, will keep using them anyway I like as long as I can - especially to say truth.
@Tasnim Re: "****Please there are many words in English that we can communicate without using bad words and vulgarity.****"
Sooo..... Exactly what the fuck is a "bad" word? I mean, what the hell can words possibly do to get labeled as "bad". Just doesn't seem fair to blame the word for how a person might use it. Let's take the word "nut", for instance. Perfectly innocent word, right? I imagine you would even call it a "good" word. After all, nuts are delicious, are they not? (Some better than others, of course.) Some people love nuts on their ice cream. Other like nuts in cookies. We can even say a person has gone nuts when referring to somebody who acted crazy about something. So, all in all, "nut" is a nice, innocent, sweet little word.... or is it? What would you think of this?...
I was walking in a busy area out in the public the other day, and I busted a nut right there in the middle of the sidewalk. But at least I was nice enough to clean up the mess so nobody else would step in it.
Oh, sorry. Guess I forgot to mention somebody had dropped a bag of pecans, and I accidentally stepped on one, causing it to crack open. Decided to sweep the rest away into the gutter to prevent anybody from possibly slipping on them and falling.
All that being said, just grow up already, dude. They're just fucking words.
Tasnim Mohammed,
Who was the first person to organize the Koran into numbered chapters and verses like the Bible and when did he do it?
@Tasnim Mohammed: Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the Earth were a joint together and we clove them asunder.”
That's a fairly common myth. In the Maori creation myth, for example, the sky father Ranginui and earth mother Papatuanuku were locked together in an endless embrace, producing many children who were forced to live in the cramped spaces between them. Tane the forest god eventually pushed them part, bringing light into the world. I suppose there was a kind of "big bang" involved, but not the one that physicists talk about.
I think you're stretching the Koran to make it look like its authors were divinely informed about modern science. I could do that with Gulliver's Travels or the Iliad. It's dishonest really.
Tasnim,
"You ask him the question what you're talking about the Big Bang is already mentioned in the Quran in Surat Al-Anbiya [Chapter 21], verse 30 “Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the Earth were a joint together and we clove them asunder.”" --Tasnim
This is a rather excellent description of the Babylonian, 3-layer-cake cosmos! I don't see any "Big Bang" in it at all. You can even read a similar account at the start of Genesis. In the beginning all was watery chaos and Yahweh separated the waters above from the waters below via a sky-vault. Later, the waters below were separated from the dry land. In that manner the "heavens" (above the sky-vault) were separated from the earth. Of course, the actual extent of space and of earth are hardly co-equal parts joined together at one time! The latter is less significant than a speck of dust in terms of the universe, and for the great majority of time earth was not even a part of the picture. I think that the Babylonian cosmos was a great story, as is it copy in Genesis, but it is not science.
A fictional book making claims about a fictional deity. Just because someone managed to get some claims broadly correct doesn't alter the fact that the Koran like the Bible is entirely man made.
People from different cultures create different deities and religions, and they all make the same grandiose claims. No one can demonstrate anything approaching objective evidence for a deity or anything supernatural.
Tasmin,
[["What's the shape of this Earth on which we live?
The atheist will tell you. It's spherical.]]
[[When did we come to know ?
So he will tell us, it was 1597, Sir Francis Drake when he sail around the Earth that he proved that the Earth was spherical.]]
[[But the Quran says 1400 years ago in Surah An-Nazi'at [Chapter 79], Verse 30 “Thereafter we have made the Earth egg shaped”. The Arabic word 'Dhahaha' one of its meaning is The Earth is an expanse, the other meaning is arrived from the Arabic word 'Dhuiyah'. Which means an egg and it doesn't refer to a normal egg. It refers to the egg of an Ostrich and we know the world is not completely round like a ball but it is Geospherical in shape.]]
[[Who could have mentioned 1400 years ago that the shape of the Earth is geospherical ?" --Tasmin]]
The ancient Greeks not only deduced that the Earth is effectively spherical but even calculated its size! Thus, knowledge of the Earth's spherical shape had been kicking around long before Islam.
It seems to me that you are just reading modern 20-20 hindsight into the Quran. Assuming that an ostrich egg is, in fact, spherical to a high degree, then it would make a handy reference for a pre-scientific speaker to compare the Earth's known shape to. I doubt very much, and this would be a point you would have to prove, that the statement was about slight refinements of a true spherical shape.
Additional edited material: I went on the Internet and looked at dozens of ostrich eggs. Generally speaking, they deviated very noticeably from a spherical shape. Therefore, if the Quran was attempting to be exacting, rather than using a ballpark example, then it is clearly wrong! If you look at an actual photo of the Earth you won't find that kind of deviation from a spherical shape. So, an ostrich egg is not a good model for the Earth unless it was intended as a crude reference to a spherical shape--something that had been known for hundreds of years before the Quran was written. If you trouble yourself to go on the Internet and look up "shape of ostrich egg," you will get a much more thorough refutation of your argument.
Finding modern science in the Bible or Quran is a game played with 20-20 hindsight and a mountain of creative interpretation. These "discoveries" are only made after science has paved the way. Atheists sometimes get tired answering these creative interpretations based on 20-20 hindsight.
I have literally held a wild ostrich egg in my hand. It was not what you would be able to describe as highly "spherical." They are less "egg shaped" then the common chicken/hen egg nearly everyone in the US is highly familiar with, but that is simply because the egg size to bird size ratio is actually smaller for an ostrich egg then it is for a chicken egg. (Especially when the hens are bred to lay as big of an egg as possible.)
@Tasmin Mohammed,
[[When I was in school, I had learned the Sun was stationery it revolved, but it did not rotate about its own axis.
So they atheist may say, Is that mention in Quran?
I say No, what I learned in school. I had learned the Sun was stationery, did not rotate about its own axis.
But the Quran says in Surah Al-Anbiya [Chapter 21], Verse 33 “It is Allah who has created the night and day, the Sun and the Moon, each one traveling in orbit with own motion.”
So the Quran says that besides the Sun revolving it even rotates about its own axis. --Tasmin]]
I think you are confused. The sun's axis is DEFINED by its rotation (spin) unless you are talking about its magnetic axis. The sun is not stationary either. It is moving at a fairly rapid velocity with respect to the most distant stars! Note that the Quran retains the ancient idea that the sun and moon have their own orbits! Before Copernicus (not counting a few enlightened, ancient Greeks) it was taken for granted that the sun orbited the Earth even as the moon does. It was religious dogma in the Christian world and, judging by this quote from the Quran, it was also dogma in the Islamic world. That is to say, the Quran does not rise above the ignorance of its time.
@Tasnim Mohammed,
[[Today science tells us that it is the mountains which prevent the Earth from shaking.
Which is mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago in Surah An-Naba [Chapter 78], Verse 6 and 7. --Tasmin]]
Why should the Earth be shaking?
@Tasnim Mohammed,
I looked up three of your verses, and for the life of me I can't see any connection with modern science!
On ants: 27:17-18
Ants don't "talk." They communicate chemically. Ants could hardly conceive of the potential harm of Solomon's advancing army. Moreover, there would hardly be any effective communication over the whole valley floor that could warn of an advancing army. I don't see any modern science here.
On Bees: 16:66,68,69
Honey bees don't eat fruit! They gather pollen from numerous plants, including fruit trees. The pollen is converted into honey which is the hive's main food source. Funny that the Quran missed the fact that bees do a dance that tells the others where the flowers are. Now, that would have been impressive! No science here either, just scientific ignorance.
On the universe's expansion: 51:47
It takes a huge amount of creative interpretation to go from "expanders" to the expansion of the modern cosmos. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that the Quran is talking about the expansion of the modern cosmos. The statement probably applies to the sky-dome which certainly has a seemingly vast expanse in the four directions. So, Allah stretched it out, expanded that space between the sky-dome and Earth, a mighty feat worthy of mention--to an ancient thinker. Where's the compelling science in all of this?
@Tasnim Mohammed
Get the FUCK OUT! Your book ain't shit and it's all copy from the previous books by Mohammed adding his own words. How the fuck can someone by the age of 45 and still can't read? Wasn't he taking care of Khadija's business when he married her at the age of 25 and she was 40 years old?.
HE WAS MANAGING HER BUSINESS AND HE STILL CAN'T READ? GET OUUUUUUUUUT....!!
Islam can't prove a single thing right now not a FUCKING single thing and you tell me your book proofs everything about the universe and the creations? For fuck sake. If your god created earth for humans why 75% of the earth's surface is covered with water. Only 1% is drinkable? You do the math you dumb fucker. Coming here trying to proof everyone's wrong by copying other's and copying words from your fake ass book. I read the Quran back to front and i fucking know it better than you and your Imams. Hell your Imams tried to kick me out when i was debating them. They have 0 things to say.
Remember that Muhammad spread the Islam through the sword and he was giving them a chance to either join islam, Pay or either DIE. Or would you like me to refresh your memory?? Religion of Peace they say. DUH!!
Let me ask you one simple question. If you believe that your GOD do exist and created all of this then why didn't himself speak to us instead of sending angles to prophets that is human like us and those prophet comes to us asking to pay in the name of god and worship something we've never seen or can be seen or touch. Is he shy from his creation or is he dead? It's your fake prophet coming with fake claims. isn't GOD rich? Why does he need money? To pay his debut from the other universe taxes? LOL! C'mon man be more realistic.
You know what! I'm not going to even have this conversation with someone as dumb as you.
@Tasnim ......
You don't want us to use "bad words" as you put it in your childish way.......
and yet you openly lie to us .... trying to deceive....... why should we engage with such a duplicitous agent ?
You posted.
"But the Quran says in Surah Al-Anbiya [Chapter 21], Verse 33 “It is Allah who has created the night and day, the Sun and the Moon, each one traveling in orbit with own motion.”
But that is untrue....it is a lie......you have lied about the Quran . I'm pretty sure there is a penalty for that ..... but that is going to be your problem.
What 21:33 actually says is ,"(It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Each of them is floating in its orbit."
See that....no mention of its "own motion".
Then there was this..... "Today science tells us that it is the mountains which prevent the Earth from shaking."
What science says this ? I demand a reference !
I have to ask..... What the hell are you talking about ?
Have you been to school,.... at all ...... for actual lessons...not just to clean the drains.
Then there was the extensive information on zoology....
Stunning stuff this..... spiders weave webs.....Wow.
Ants talk ......really ?
Bees eat from fruits (16:69 Then eat of all fruits,....) ....well damn me...... I'm pretty sure Bees obtain their sustenance from nectar and pollen ....FROM FLOWERS !
"There are hundreds verse in the Quran which only speaks about the water cycle which science has discovered r recently [in this centuries].
In this century ? really....? Try Bernard Pallisy (1580 AD.) followed up in 1674 AD by Pierre Perrault......
Sorry ....I can't go on..... your ignorance is stunning even by theist standards ......... It is not my job to educate you..... but I would say this.....put down the Quran ,at least once a day and pick up an encyclopaedia ..... any one will do...and just read one entry a day ...... please.
@watchman,
Making a false statement is not necessarily the same as lying. It can be due to ignorance, carelessness, or faulty assumptions that color one's observations. I once put salt on my hard-boiled egg and wondered why it seemed so weak. No real salt taste! Then I realized that it was sugar!! Now, you would think that the difference between salt and sugar is so damn obvious than no one could ever make such a mistake. But we observe with our assumptions and moods as well as with our senses, and I assumed I was using salt. Therefore, something had to be wrong with that salt! (The whole episode was over in a few seconds, so more careful reasoning was not in the picture.)
It is not surprising, then, that someone who is taught their whole life that the Quran is perfect could easily insert, leave out, or misread stuff in a way that might seem deceptive to others. Unless driven to a sterner conclusion, we should give the benefit of doubt to honest intentions.
@TM
hey TM, I have a seat, and all the stuff including an aussie treat "choc bombs" sit back and watch the show....
@Old Man
I'm here already. Caught a little of the pre-game action, and made a contribution of my own. Not sure what choc bombs are, but they look pretty good. *chewing* Nom-nom-nom-nom.... *buuuuurp* Oh, 'scuse me. Here, I brought some drinks.
Anyone else notice that the entry regarding "Surah Adh-Dhariyat [Chapter 51], Verse 47." Had different translations regarding expanding universe..... BEFORE..... Hubbels discovery!!!!
"Make it suit the narrative number 2!"
Utter wankers lol
Who could have mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago all that I mentioned above? Which scientist or atheist knew that?
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