The only kind of real but sort of half ass proof that I can think of off the top of my head would be NDEs but that is it. Also, do you believe that if it were confirmed that we as humans have souls that hell exists? How about if we knew for sure that there was going to be some sort of after life? I am just asking hypothetically, because I go through phases where I sometimes feel sure there is no such thing, but then other days I kind of worry about it again! One of the main reasons I worry is because I am kind of the reason why my dad became an atheist and I would feel scared if I outlive him wondering if he is suffering because of me.
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Do you believe in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, Leprechauns, witches, vampires, goblins, zombies, werewolves? I doubt it. So why are you worried about hell? It's on the same level as these other fantasies--just a scary story dreamed up by sadistic, power-hungry priests to frighten people into submission to their cults.
Keep shining the light of commonsense and logic on this religious garbage, and eventually you'll set yourself free from the fear.
@ pork222
There have been several others on this forum who don't believe in god, but fear hell. I understand your concern about how you were the reason he became an atheist, but you didn't do anything consciously to influence him on that. If another baby would have been born in your place, he still would have become an atheist, don't you think?
It often takes years to overcome the fear of hell, once it has sunk it's teeth in.
I find the concept of hell and heaven completely ridiculous.
Take heaven. To end up in a place of bliss and enjoyment. Knowing that others that you love have ended up in hell? How would it be possible to enjoy heaven, knowing that?
Even if that wasn't a problem. Imagine spending 100 years in the same blissful state. Kind of boring, huh? Well, what about another 100 years. How about 1000 years? Ten long lived lifetimes? It's starting to sound like torture instead of heaven. How about 10000 years? A hundred long lived lifetimes? Let me the *bleep* outta here! No, no, it has only just begun. Your here for eternity, millions of years, billions of years.
And hell is the very same thing but with reversed enjoyment, once you've been tortured for a hundred lifetimes, it would have become a mind numbingly boring routine as well.
And if you think that atheists would risk going to hell, Christians would risk it just the same. As well as all other religions. Which one is right? Which one is the true religion?
What if the Jews are right? What if it's Islam?
A funny twist on the subject by a comic genius.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewq17XkuuIc
@Pragmatic
"Imagine spending 100 years in the same blissful state. Kind of boring, huh?"
For a description of the boredom of eternal bliss, see the chapter about the afterlife in Julian Barnes' "A History of the World in 10 1/2 Chapters." Imagine spending several thousand years playing golf until you can score 18 holes in one every time. What do you after that?
@pork222 - Hell was made up. It doesn't exist.
You can't make someone an atheist. They realise religion is full of shit and become one. you may have just pointed out the fallacies. Your fathers decision was his own and an intelligent one.
if you take Jesus as his word says that there is a hell,I wish i had better news for you,Now if you take the other view point there is no such thing as hell.It all comes down to where you are in your life.i think that hell in a way is more a seperation from GOD then actual flames.If a person desires through there own choosing not to go to heaven Jesus will not force himself on the individual.It`s your choice now.
SK: "i think that hell in a way is more a seperation from GOD then (sic) actual flames"
Guess I'm in hell then. Ain't bad at all!
lol
@ skeptical christian .....
I wonder.....would you be so kind as to list the chapters and verses where you say Jesus says that there is a hell........
purely for my own edification you understand....
watchman read the scriptures the gospel of matthew luke etc, all say things concerning hell.just pick up a concordance or search google that will supply you with plenty of information.
@skeptical christian....
You are the one claiming to be a follower of christ...... and yet you can not/will not oblige my simple question.........surely you know.....you MUST know......
matthew chapter 5 verse 22, matthew 10 verse 28, mark 9 v47, 2peter 2v4.yes my friend be on watch for you don`t know the day or hour the lord cometh.
So...you do know........or not...perhaps......
We can ignore 2 peter as the question was actualy regarding verses where jesus says hell is real.....and as an aside...peter's suppossed letter refers to tartarus (tartarum).....no mention of Hell.
So on to Mrk 9:4....Well...still no mention of Hell....just an unextinguished fire.....
How do we fare with Mtth 5:22 & 10:28..... Well well well......not a mention of Hell here either.....both verses refer to Gehenna
So you cannot tell me the verses where Jesus says Hell is real....
By the way...your avatar picture.....looks a little too european...dont you think ? Fair hair...blue eyes....pale skin.....you do know Jesus was supposed to be a Levatine Jew....not a Germanic hippy.
Are you seriously saying there is no christian teaching on hell then why have morals why do anything right?If you can rape steal and murder then what is stopping you but a standard of right and wrong.Why follow Jesus at all? Why be altruistic,I disagree watchman with your premise that there is no mention of hell in the new testament.
@skeptical
"why do anything right?If you can rape steal and murder then what is stopping you but a standard of right and wrong."
So without your faith and fear of hell you would do all of those evil things? Isn't there anything in your own character that prevents you?
Christians that believe that scare the hell out of me.
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@skeptical christian......
Naughty naughty.........you are trying the christian two step......saying I made a claim that i did not ...then taking the thread off topic to answer the non-existent claim...
No no no...it will not do.....
I made no such claim.....it was you who made the erroneous claim that "Jesus had said that Hell is real".....
I merely pointed out your inaccuracy....
I checked in a Bible.......arguably your Bible....... the Latin Vulgate......(you might have heard of it).....and no...in the verses you so grudgingly put forward.....no mention of Hell.....
Now the Vulgate is the Bible of the catholic church....and as I know catholic theology to be duplicitous and known for its double dealing....I thought I'd better cross check with other sources......
So ,as per the usual practice of going to the oldest available sources.....I double checked against the greek bible......and guess what........
same result......no mention of Hell.....
Then just as a final "belt & braces" i checked against the same verses in the Aramaic Peshitta version of the new testament.....just in case.........and still no mention of Hell......
So it seems you are WRONG........Jesus did not say "Hell is real"....as per your claim....I think you need to seek guidance...see if you can find a priest that can read Latin/Greek or Aramaic and ask him.....
@ watchman
Most impressive fact checking.
But do you expect proselytizing Christians to actually have read the passages they build their arguments on? How presumptuous of you!
@sc "If you can rape steal and murder then what is stopping you but a standard of right and wrong." -sc
Sorry about the bad news. But atheists are under represented in the federal prison population (no data on states). States and countries with a disproportional number of atheists are associated with fewer social ills (crime, teen pregnancy) and more social goods (education, income). Atheists, mormons, lutherans and catholics are tied for the lowest divorce rates.
Don''t be surprised if you get to heaven and it is full of atheists.
"Don''t be surprised if you get to heaven and it is full of atheists."
...full of atheists trying to get out
LOL! algebe!
And yes one of the things I forgot to mention is atheists and agnostics have high rankings when it comes to religious knowledge.
http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey/
@Algebe: Can you imagine standing in a choir singing "Just a Closer Walk with Thee" forever, and ever , and ever! Have you ever seen Pee Wee's Big Adventure? The scene where Pee Wee is riding the freight train with the old hobo? The old hobo starts on his umpteenth rendition of "Jimmy Crack Corn" and Pee Wee hurls himself off the speeding freight train just to escape. Like that atheists will be leaping from heaven!
Did you know that Judaism has never had the idea of a hell in its Theology? Thousands of years the chosen people, having conversations directly from God, the complex law. To this day they do not have it. The first anyone heard of it was from Jesus. Isn't that interesting?
@Watchman
"your avatar picture.....looks a little too european."
Isn't that Cesare Borgia? He was a real holy man. His father was the Pope, and he was a Cardinal while still in his teens. He murdered his own brother, which is also very bliblical. I heard an (unconfirmed) story that most of the Jesus faces in Renaissance paintings are based on his likeness.
By the by...
Didn't the Paul character have something to say about long hair...??
Corinthians 11:14....."Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,"
But then ,of course...within the confines of the myth....Paul never actually met/saw Jesus....did he.?
"God loves you sooooo much he won't force you." That argument has always pissed me off.
If God exists he knows so much more than we do. And he is supposed to be more loving than any of us. Imagine your house was burning down and your 2-year-old daughter is confused by the dark and chaos and different people calling her name from different parts of the house.
So instead of running out to find you, she hides under the bed.
Do you say, "Oh well, I called her. But she chose to stay under her bed. Oh well." And walk away?
Or do you brave the flames and pull her out, even if she is screaming in fear, because she was overwhelmed by all the messages AND SHE IS YOUR BELOVED CHILD?
Only worse, because these flames will roast her skin for 1,000,000 years and 1,000,000 years after that, repeat repeat repeat?
This is not a loving God you honor. He is a sadistic monster.
I like this. The bible is the big book of multiple choice and you have decided to ignore the bible's descriptions and go with separation from god. Well good for you. Here's a thought: Why not ignore all of them. And by the way, we don't choose to believe or not to believe. Beliefs don't work that way. So, since it appears you are clearly in the theist camp, what proof or at least what good evidence do you have that god or gods exist?
@Skeptical
"if you take Jesus as his word says"
As if anyone even knew what he said.
there are 4 gospels that state what Jesus said Mark being the earliest, i on faith put alot of validity in his words.It all comes down to faith.i have faith in my lords spoke words.
Skeptical Christian: Your doe-eyed savior is quite the lover for sending all those horrible unbelievers to roast for eternity , isn't he?
chimp3 jesus is a god of justice and at the end time he won`t go against his nature, which is righteousness mercy grace all these attributes show his love.jesus states very clearly a judgement.That`s why now is the time to give your life to him.He offers grace and mercy now, But if you refuse his offer then you are making your own destiny.
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