Polite Conversation & Religion

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cel615's picture
Polite Conversation & Religion

I'm wondering, what is the opinion of others on whether religion and/or atheism should still be considered a "rude " topic to discuss.
My mother (in her 80s) , I'm in my 60s........always considered religion and politics 2 subjects never to be discussed.
However , after being an atheist for the last 10 years, and having the time now for further study, I am becoming convinced that the net negatives of religion in both this country and the world, are too great to keep ignoring. Yes, why not question, politely of course? I have met many people that are critical thinkers in all areas except religion.
What is so wrong in asking why they exempt that belief from the type of thinking that dominates the rest of their lives.
Opinions?

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Sir Random's picture
There is nothing wrong with

There is nothing wrong with it. Which is the biggest indesrepency with most religious people. They will think critically about most subjects but religion they take on "faith" (read: blind, willful ignorance) and often times will even allow it to destroy their critical thinking (I.e, a hurricane hiring Cuba is "God's plan", while one person surviving a tornado means that person is " blessed by God") Furthermore, bringing this up in a way that does not support their delusions will result in them feeling offend at you "overly scrutinizeing" their religion.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
mainly because most people do

mainly because most people do not like that topic.

It is like saying that you failed an exam and you don't like people talking about it much.

They failed the exam of burden of proof, it is relied on faith alone.
To the point of championing faith itself that it becomes important to have faith over reason.

In that mindset discussing this matter can only hinder faith, not benefit them in anyway.

It is rude because they think you want to hinder their faith in some way.
Which is the truth if you think about it.

On the other side, the outcome would not be a pleasent one even if you convince them of something.
It is not enjoyable for people to be challanged on something they put so much commitment in, that they based their lives and thinking around.

It is like someone attacking the foundations of your house and you need to discuss with the guy so that he won't break your foundations instead of kicking him out.

This is the main reason why they become so angry and offended when you discuss this subject. They "know" they need the foundations to live because they cannot imagine how the house would stand without them, so any argument you propose won't change their mind.

The question you should put to yourself is:

Should I care for the truth more then I care for my relationship with the person?

Will the truth benefits out-way the benefits of the lie?

Sir Random's picture
Jeff, the great philosopher

Jeff, the great philosopher of 2016.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
lol

lol

mykcob4's picture
Politics and religion are the

Politics and religion are the same thing. People are illogical when it comes to both. They become emotional, defensive and rude if you even question anything about their faith or their ideology.
You just can't reason with unreasonable people.
Typically, if you ask politely about someones religion, they will first compose themselves trying to overcome the shock that anyone would have the audacity to even question what they themselves would never question. Then they will file through their mind the pat response that they have been programmed to say in such situations, and in-turn give that pat response.
If you don't accept that pat answer and inquire further, their frustration increases to the point that they don't even hear the words you are saying, but instead hear the words that have been pounded into them culturally, institutionally. Words that they have been taught that come from the Devil's mouth.
They can't simply believe that anyone would ever not accept that their belief isn't superior to everything else.
Now you are faced with a dilemma. Do you continue a conversation with someone incapable of reason or do you just move on?
My suggestion is to move on. If they offer information at all, it will be illogical and a pat answer that they have learned to use.
Example:
question: Is there any proof of a god?
pat answer: Of course, the bible is proof.
1st response: But the bible doesn't offer proof, it's allegory, hearsay, and a thinly veiled collection of folklore from many other and older myths.
Their response: The bible is a work inspired by god and is pure fact.

At that point you can't go any farther. You could ask for a verifiable fact, but you won't get a real answer. Something like "can you deny the testimony of 500 eye witnesses that saw Jesus rise again?"
You could try and explain that there is no corroborating evidence that anyone saw Jesus rise again and that eye witness testimony is highly unreliable, and that in any event that the eye witness testimony in this case is hearsay and not real evidence. They will promptly change the subject and redefine evidence to suit their needs.
I went so far in one instance to provide from the Harvard school of law what is acceptable as evidence.
Means, motive, opportunity, cause and effect, all are requirements for a conviction in civil or criminal cases. Evidence can be circumstantial, like DNA, finger prints, etc which need scientific verification, and or it can be testimonial which must be confirmed by no less than one other independent individual that bears no prejudice in the case.
The person that I was talking to didn't believe one word I said, didn't HEAR one word I said. Wouldn't even read what I had printed out.
So no, you can not have a polite conversation with a theist about religion unless you completely and unequivocally agree with them.

chimp3's picture
It is not rude to discuss

It is not rude to discuss religion . I do respect the social setting I happen to find myself in . If I am at a dinner with friends / family and discussing religion is going to cause a stir then I will not . My goal in such a setting is to enjoy others company. If I am at work and our mission as a team would be impaired by the religious controversy then I do not discuss it. This is my choice not a moral standard I recommend. My opinions about religion are very critical and I can be insulting at times to believers . I have very little patience for anyone in 2016 who would say "If people evolved from monkeys why are there still monkeys ?". Some things are just going to make me say something that stirs the pot a bit.

doubleAtheist's picture
What country are you located

What country are you located in?

chimp3's picture
I am in the U.S.

I am in the U.S.

Sir Random's picture
However, on the subject of

However, on the subject of politics, I like to reference a certain quote from George Carlin. See below

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solidzaku's picture
I'm not trying to be the

I'm not trying to be the contrarian, but I do think it is somewhat impolite to bring up religion in a conversation if it's not something that was brooked in the beginning, and isn't a 'getting to know you' sort of thing. I think we have a bit of a bias when it comes to this topic. We are, after all, on the Atheist Republic's website. But in our day-to-day? I can't think of an instance where it's been in good manners to bring it up when it wasn't either brought up by someone else or was the start of the conversation. A similar thing goes with politics and in some cases of manners. It's the idea that politics/religion are things that dictate the behavior of other people. These things are inherently difficult to talk about in a calm manner, since you at some point have to tell somebody 'no' about something they probably like to do. This brings up confrontation and conflict, which aren't conducive to civil behavior.

There is some irony, I must admit, in something as 'peaceful' as religion being something that can't be brought up because it incites rudeness.

Sir Random's picture
I agree with you whole

I agree with you whole heartedly , Tzeentch

Pitar's picture
Lincoln said it best: "It's

Lincoln said it best: "It's better to be silent and thought an idiot than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." Politics and religion are certainly two topics that exemplify this credo.

Remember, who embraces and pursues politics and religion? The ignorant masses.

Sir Random's picture
Pitar, I'm glad you joined

Pitar, I'm glad you joined this site. The things you say always hold great truth value, and your being here no doubt enriches this sites existence.

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