Catholics were encouraged to go to designated points along the country's borders for a mass rosary prayer for the salvation of Poland and the world.
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"We want our Catholic faith to continue, to keep our children safe"
!?
I think they were praying to keep the muslim immigrants out of poland.
"keep the muslim immigrants out of poland."
Thank goodness they have Catholic priests to protect their children from the notorious child-molesting muslim immigrants.
So you’re assuming all priests are like this? Is it safe then to assume that all public school teachers are like this as well?
@Jon the Catholic: "Is it safe then to assume that all public school teachers are like this as well?
No. But it is safe to assume that a public school teacher who molests children won't be transferred to another school district where he can molest more children. The public school system has safeguards for children. The Catholic church has safeguards for priests.
Fun fact, priests and teachers molest children equal to each per individual. Obviously that's still horrible since priests are suppose to be men of God. Personally, I think they should be taken out and shot.
Please provide the data to back up that assertion, dumb ox.
@ Jon the catholic
Let's see if you can answer this question honestly
Is there a issue of child molestation among the catholic priests?
@Burn your bible: "Is there a issue of child molestation among the catholic priests?"
I recall that the church lawyers at the Royal Commission hearings here in Australia admitted that about 7% of priests were involved. If we estimate conservatively that each priest molests about 10 children, multiplied by the total number of priests.....Oh dear. That's a lot of children in a lot of countries.
Cardinal Pell, who's on trial here for child-sex offences, presided over this horror as the senior Catholic in Australia. Even if he's not guilty of the specific charges against him, he certainly bears institutional guilt. He should spend the rest of his sorry life tending the graves of all the molested children who've since OD'd or committed suicide.
@algebe
My question was not due to lack of knowledge, I asked due to his answer involving teachers... I sincerely want to see if he can admit to a fundamental moral issue in the church.
Yes. I admit that there are priest and even bishops who commit these acts... But I don't condemn the institution for it. The Catholic Church has never taught that this act is "okay".
Jon the Catholic "But I don't condemn the institution for it."
Do you not agree that there has been institutional wrongdoing that merits condemnation of the institution? I'm talking about bishops moving offending priests to different parishes, for example. There's also the failure of the Catholic church to provide a timely and meaningful response to victims. And what about organization-level wrongdoing like the Magdalene Laundries in Ireland?
Let’s take this one at a time. I’m not familiar about sex scandals in the US as I’m a Filipino. Our priests have a different vice here. As I understand it though, the church did in fact do this as it was the understanding during some time in the past that the perpetrators of these acts (clergy or not) were doing so because of a phychological problem (on the part of the perpetrator). Thus reassigning them to a different parish (close to where they could get phychological treatment) would be the most prudent action for the time.
Now, however, it’s been understood to be a crime (and not just a physcholocal problem) so the more prudent form of action is to go to trial, which priests normally do.
As to the Magdalene Laundries, you mention once again an unfamiliar account so I had to look it up. I don’t wanna defend something I know very little about...
So I’ll have someone else try:
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/propoganda-at-its-best
The history of the catholic institution has been one of oppression & abuse in one form or another. It's rotten to the core. Their motto should be, 'Preservation is Paramount'. It is corrupt & was from the beginning. And yes, all associated with it are guilty. If I wasn't also a humanist, I would say, 'Burn them at the stake'.
@SHAM: "Their motto should be, 'Preservation is Paramount'."
I went to the Vatican museum last year. As we looked at all the paintings, the guide said that the message from content of the paintings and the design of the rooms is "Oppose us and we will destroy you." I was really glad to get out of there into the fresh air.
@Algebe, when we first stepped into St. Peter's Basilica, a few years ago, my boyfriend and I were completely overwhelmed and we were quiet for quite a long time, as we were walking. I remember my first words to describe the place were something like: "These bastards! How many people may have died to build this monstrosity, this mother of Cathedrals, this temple of luxury? How much in thites, how many wars in the name of a lie?" It's so beautiful, but so sad at the same time. Its marble and gold are covered in blood.
I’m actually almost laughing in my head. I grew up in the Catholic Church. Believe me, I’ve had many many chances of leaving. Wherher an issue, scandal or something the pope says comes up, I find myself thinking, “Do I really wanna be part of this thing?”
I generally acceptedd what the popular opinion was about what the church teaches. Things like, “The RCC hates women” or “The RCC hates gays.” I accepted these views without even getting an answer from the church. When I finally did some research, I found slowly that out of a hundred allegations thrown at the church, 90 are false or over exaggerated, 9 are things that apply to any and all institutions with authority during the time, and the remaining 1 is hardly a deal breaker.
Of course, if you read the material with the predisposed position of, “The RCC is evil,” you’ll no doubt just throw away their side of the story. But as one who was so ready to leave at a moment’s notice, the RCC has shocked me by staying true to the teachings of Christ.
Disclaimer: I still agree with you that any priest (even if it happens to be the pope) who is found guilty of ANY crime, should be punished accordingly.
@JontheCat. I was raised a RCC, my mother and most of my relatives, friends, and neighbors are... For example, where I live, several people's balconies show flags of my country next to flags of Jesus crucified (and some even add their soccer team's...). So I don't write just for the sake of it...
If Jesus was a true person, and if He was God's son and He could watch what it has been and it's being made in His name, He would be ashamed of the Catholic Church and its temple of luxury (and lust).
“The RCC hates gays.” Not every Christian, not the Community itself, in fact I have several RCC gay friends. In Spain being gay and RCC is not unusual, but important Catholics have harrassed, insulted and signed against homosexuals and denigrated us women, and I could post dozen of links, if you needed proof. Just a bite:
Cardinal Cañizares, one of the most influential Catholics in Spain, during an homily "the important rise of political leaders against family, helped by other powers such as the Gay Empire and some feminist ideologies", and "laws who comment on gender ideology (he meant regulation for real non-discrimination of women) are the most insidious in the history of Humankind". (Translation is mine).
What a Christian!
(edited)
I can’t speak for individual Catholic priest or even bishops. But you may check the Catechism of the Catholic Church for the actual church teaching on certain matters. These things happen a lot in The Philippines as well where the clergy say things which are not in accordance to the official church teaching. So what’s usually done is the bishop is informed about the priest and is then reprimanded. The issues don’t last very long as well. The worst I’ve heard in a while are priests who give boring homilies.
@JontheCat: Maybe I should remind you that a Cardinal is not a Bishop, not a Priest. Cardinal is the highest and most prestigious rank in the CC, they are the ones who appoint the Pope.
Cardinal Cañizares is the Vicepresident of the CEE, this is, he's the second most powerful Spanish RCC. He's not some random priest in some random village. His words were published in several newspapers, and millions of people follow his lead.
This man, as Cardinal Pell, is heart and soul of the Catholic Church.
(edited)
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Interesting you mention this because a cardinal is in fact a bishop. The pope is in fact, a bishop. We sometimes refer to him as the bishop of Rome. (See holy orders. There are only 3. Deacons, Priests, Bishops)
Again, you mention this Spanish cardinal yet I know nothing about him or what he actually said so it’s more prudent for me to refrain from commenting rather than risk defending a strawman. Church officials get misquoted a lot. Even the pope. Even our local bishops but looking closely at the entire quote, the true meaning can be seen to be very unoffensive. Not saying though that what your bishop has said is not wrong. I simply do not know.
@Jon, what I know it's that Cardinals are appointed by the Pope and they only answer to him (See holy orders... less than 200 Cardinals in the entire world)... But enough of Cañizares and Pell, who faces child abuse charges btw; they were meant to be examples, not my central argument, which was that the RCC elite not only provides shelter to reprehensible people, but these bad apples are also part of the same head of the Church.
Just so you know, bishops are the heads of a diocese. An archbishop is the head of an archdiocese, which is just a large diocese. A Cardinal is a bishop/archbishop who is chosen to be a member of the college of cardinals. This body elects from its ranks the next pope. All bishops answer directly to the bishop of rome (pope).
As to the immoral statements/acts of some bishops, I’ll even add to that. Some popes have been known to lead immoral lives. What I ask now, is where does the church teach that these things are okay? See official church teachings and not just the individual opinions of bishops or popes.
Jon, you wrote, "When I finally did some research, I found slowly that out of a hundred allegations thrown at the church, 90 are false or over exaggerated, 9 are things that apply to any and all institutions with authority during the time, and the remaining 1 is hardly a deal breaker."
Since you have already done this research, please cite your sources for these data.
You may do this on your own. Really arguing about these things doesn’t make sense as neither side is willing to back down. I’ll just list down a number of issues I’ve considered where atheism would’ve been the better option (thus no doctrinal differences between protestants and catholics).
1. The Galileo affair
2. The Spanish Inquisition
3. Evil popes
4. RCC’s stand on contraception
5. RCC’s stand on abortion in cases of incest and rape.
6. RCC’s stand on homosexuality
7. Giordano Bruno
8. The chance of Jesus not existing
9. Contradictions in the Bible
10. Existence of God
11. Church clergy sexually abusing children
Here’s just a few.
Huh? How does this demonstrate the validity of your assertions in the prior post? I'm did not make thos assertions, you did. Therefore, it is reasonable that you proved the results of the research you claim to have done.
I’m not actually making any assertions now. I’m telling you that you may do this research on your own. I’m also saying that I’ve looked into these issues and found that basically, the common assertions against the RCC were either unfounded, exaggerated versions of the truth or “are definitely true but is true for society as a whole”.
If you really wanna engage, we may but I ask we limit it to only one topic. Or you may message me directly so we can have a more lively conversation. Hahaha.
You made an assertion with very specific information in it. You asserted you did the research that provided that information. Now you seem to be trying to wiggle out of providing the data to back it all up. I find that very telling about your level of honesty and certainly about your level of reliability.
Say what you want. There are a million issues hurled at the Catholic Church. If I didn't need to work or eat or sleep, I'd answer these gladly. Like I said, if you wish, you may press me on one issue and I'd be happy to answer it here but if we go to more issues, I ask we not do it on this forum - it's quite easy to lose track of the conversation on these forums. If you wish, though, we can do this via private message on this site.
That is quite the caveat.
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