Objectivism, Atheism, God, and Prayer: Are all 4 mutually exclusive?

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CharlieIndigoAlpha1166611's picture
Objectivism, Atheism, God, and Prayer: Are all 4 mutually exclusive?

Almost everyone knows what prayer is (or do they? dictionary.com lists 7 different definitions), but less know about the philosophy of Objectivism, popularized and dogmatically advocated by author and philosopher, Ayn Rand. Objectivism and the Evangelical notion that the Bible is the perfect word of the creator of the cosmos, are definitely mutually exclusive, and this can be proven by methodical logical deduction. There is no way a rational person can believe that the Bible is the word of God.

However, I will propose that a belief in “God” and in prayer are not mutually exclusive with the philosophy of Objectivism, or even Atheism. In other words, Objectivists and Atheists can believe in a version of “God”, and the power of prayer, without compromising their rationality or scientific principles. I know you want to stop reading now, I get it, but if you stay with me, maybe you will start to understand where I'm coming from. I ask for no "faith," and I worship LOGIC, so if you can dispute any of my assertions with LOGIC, great! I welcome criticism and skepticism as my only attachment is to discovering as much Truth as I can in my time on this Earth.



First, What is The Philosophy of Objectivism? Here is a nice summary from the Ayn Rand institute:



“Ayn Rand’s philosophy, Objectivism, begins by embracing the basic fact that existence exists. Reality is, and in the quest to live we must discover reality’s nature and learn to act successfully in it.

To exist is to be something, to possess a specific identity. This is the Law of Identity: A is A. Facts are facts, independent of any consciousness. No amount of passionate wishing, desperate longing or hopeful pleading can alter the facts. Nor will ignoring or evading the facts erase them: the facts remain, immutable.

In Rand’s philosophy, reality is not to be rewritten or escaped, but, solemnly and proudly, faced. One of her favorite sayings is Francis Bacon’s: “Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed.”
Reality — that which exists — has no alternatives, no competitors, nothing “transcending” it. To embrace existence is to reject all notions of the supernatural and the mystical, including God.”



If you have read and comprehended the above statement and assume subscribers to Rand’s philosophy must be Atheists, you would be in good company. According to americanatheists.org; “Atheism is usually defined incorrectly as a belief system. Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. This statement seems straight forward, but when you look closely, there is a problem. Please define “god(s)”!

When one says the word “God” to another person, the concept is internally translated and comprehended by each human mind in a unique way that is directly related to their lifelong experience with the word. It is very difficult for those who have been indoctrinated by ANY system to imagine a version of God they never considered before, but the idea of God does not have a fixed definition, it is a moving target, and therefore, Atheists would be reasonable to ask how one could be claim to be an Atheist, when Atheist principles demand a lack of belief in god(s). Well, what if one wants to call the sum total of all reality, God? Many Atheists would accuse this person of committing the “moving the goal posts” fallacy, but I would argue that this concept of God, as the sum total of reality, has been around longer than the Christian, daddy in the sky, version. 



Physicist Dr John Hagelin recently spoke at a Stanford University symposium saying; “Modern science is often derided as “atheistic,” as lacking a purpose for Man. But what if, in the grand game of Nature, consciousness were more than a mere accident? What if Intelligence was a primary constituent of a Conscious Universe?” In other words, physicists have discovered evidence leading some to hypothesize that the sum total of consciousness could, itself, be conscious and “self-aware”. This hypothesis claims nothing as truth, but offers only an exciting and stimulating idea, in the form of a rational scientific hypothesis, to be pursued with scientific wonder and curiosity by all who are curious about the foundation of our reality.

Those of us who want to investigate this hypothesis do not believe, in the same way typical religious institutes believe, that our ideas are truth and should be forced on others against their wills. Scientists believe in the possibility of a higher level of consciousness, but a scientist would never state a theory is truth, until it is proven to be so. I find this to be a consistent application of Objectivism, which demands humans face reality and not ignore evidence when new evidence conflicts with one’s previously held notions. 



Recent developments (over the last 10 years) in the fields of quantum physics and consciousness have caused me to analyze my personal experience with prayer (I was taught to pray as soon as I could talk), and the knowledge that all matter is made up of atoms, protons, and electrons, and exists in a field that connects all matter to everything else, the “fabric” of reality. I believe this connection, combined with attributes of consciousness, causes an effect when one “prays.” Objectivism demands one not ignore reality, and for me to deny the effects that prayer has had on my life would be intellectual dishonesty. 

After I became an Atheist, I was introduced to the Theory of Attraction (often called the Law of Attraction) and found that using this method was just a different version of prayer than I was used to, but I decided to try it anyway and see if it worked for a non-religious Atheist like me. In the eight years since leaving religion, my abundance and resources have multiplied at exponential rates. When my career as a touring musician ended after 6 years of hard work and dedication, I had a couple thousand dollars to my name, and 4 years later, I manage two successful private schools and raised one million dollars to start my third business. Throughout this time, I have used prayer like a scientist, documenting my desires as well as my progress towards them over these last 8 years as an “Atheist”, and denying the results I have witnessed in my life would be dishonest.

Could prayer simply be a placebo effect that motivates me and helps me hold myself accountable to my goals? Definitely! Placebo or not, “prayer” works for me ( I would prefer to call it strategic thought, but that would ignore the slight similarities it shares to religious prayer, which is it's appeal to forces as yet not understood or known), so I continue to use it. I do not expect it to work by itself, though. Personally, it acts as gasoline to a fire already raging and just seems to give me fortuitous boosts, connections, and profitable synchronicities. 



I will never compromise my intellectual integrity by ignoring new evidence that forces me to change my current beliefs. I will always follow the evidence, and in my life it has led me to this belief: some version of God is real (if one want to call the sum total of existence God, as previous cultures did, and reality is real, therefore, that notion of God is real and provable).

The Bible and all other books claiming to be the perfect word of the creator of the cosmos are shameless frauds to rational minds, and prayer still seems to work for me, even when I don’t know who or what exactly I’m praying to. This matters to me because I believe Liberty is the most important right that humans have, and I believe evangelical religions are the biggest threat to Liberty that exists. I have no problem with anyone believing in the flying spaghetti monster, as long as they don’t force their will on me without my consent, and I hope anyone who has taken the time to read this self indulgent article will also support Liberty and Objectivism because a wide adoption of both these principles will vastly accelerate the success of our species.

-JLR

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smoran's picture
Wow, That was long :)

Wow, That was long :)

I don't know about Objectivists (??), I Can tell about Me, I'm an Atheist.
I Can't define God...
I Can't, because as far as I am concerned, there is no "God".

Then what do I mean when I say "god"? I mean Any!

Any common definition of a God or gods or semi-god or spirit or whatever...
Any of it was yet to be proven.

If you'll say something like "Money is my God", I can't argue against it. If this is your definition of a god, bless you ( ;) ).
I Can argue about, though, a God that can turn a stick into a snake, Or a man that was resurrected, Or a man that flew to the moon on a winged horse.
I Can argue about people that can talk to spirits or energies.
I Can argue about the existence of spiritual dimensions.

To None, not even one, not a single valid, solid, sufficient and unquestionable(ish) evidence has ever been provided to suggest that there are any entities like the above.

And as for Prayers,
An atheist can never argue aginst the power of subjective prayer.
If I say a prayer and it makes me happier, an Atheist can't claim it is not.

An Atheist will, however, argue against the effect of your prayer over another person, A natural disaster, or anything that is not yourself.

cheers :)

Nyarlathotep's picture
Ayn Rand Objectivism?

Ayn Rand Objectivism?

Dave Matson's picture
Nyarlathotep:

Nyarlathotep:

Yeah, I was wondering how Ayn Rand got credit for objectivism.

algebe's picture
"Yeah, I was wondering how

"Yeah, I was wondering how Ayn Rand got credit for objectivism."

Didn't she develop the philosophy and express it first in "Fountainhead" and "Atlas Shrugged"?

Nyarlathotep's picture
Yeah, something like that.

Yeah, something like that.

Pitar's picture
Prayer, placebo, a rose by

Prayer, placebo, a rose by any other name is still just a flower.

I think prayer is very important to many people. It is to them a daily lotto ticket and even much more significant in times of need. It unburdens them for those moments of need. I don't have that avenue of stress release but I prefer it to the notion of prayer. If I'm going to experience futility I'm going there fully and honestly, as per the suggestion of objectivity.

Mutually exclusive? Yes. I can't rationalize prayer in the objective light of truth. I suppose a person can hope for both. As an atheist the idea of mortality is enough. The theist will not accept just that much. The theist wants the mortality and the immortality. A bit selfish, but that's the promise of religions and that's why religions continue to exist. If prayer was not one of the facets of immortality no one would pray. If immortality was not one of the facets of religion I doubt people would shed blood for them. But, religion demands that prayer be requisite to immortality and the only evidence of anything eternal coming from that is the immortality of religion. It's a self-perpetuating meme. People? They just continue to pray until they die.

But, after all is said and done, people are not ready to accept their mortality so let them continue to embrace their memes. Objectively speaking, subjectivity is an essential part of life.

chimp3's picture
With much more brevity Ayn

With much more brevity Ayn Rand said that believers were 'irrational and insane".

Dave Matson's picture
If the universe is God, then

If the universe is God, then why not just call "God" the "universe?" Yes, the universe does exist in the same sense that the Earth exists. No problem! We can all believe in the universe unless we are total nihilists. So, junk the "God" word which comes with a lot of confusing baggage. Another thing that bothers me about your thread is this: How do you sum up consciousness? Without a clear, rigorous definition of that procedure, talking about the sum of all consciousness is rather meaningless.

I'm glad that prayer works for you. What is it that you are trying to prove by that observation? I don't see any shadow of a legitimate, scientific test here. No science. We have your interpretation of your prayer events but, unlike actual events which we may assume to be honestly relayed, your interpretations can be totally erroneous.

ProgrammingGodJordan's picture
There is a new paradigm that

There is a new paradigm that has steep accuracy, called 'NON-BELIEFISM' aka the state of being 'UNLOCKED' or the ABSENCE of all belief. (Obejectivism is self-conradictory)

http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/new-cult-non-beliefism...

INFORMATION:
http://unlock.forumotion.me/

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KEY ERROR WITH OBJECTIVISM:

In objectivism, stuff is permitted to hold 'TRUE'. (ie beliefs are allowed)
In life, (as far as science prescribes), hold events to be LIKELY. (so we physically can't believe)

Although we physically can't BELIEF, the event of attempting to believe may lead us to attach to decisions, that are worse than better ones.

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NOTE:

BELIEF may include NON-SCIENCE.
LOGIC/SCIENCE in contrast, does not include NON-SCIENCE.

Dave Matson's picture
PGJordan:

PGJordan:

In the absence of all beliefs, how can you walk out the door? At a minimum, that requires beliefs about the geometry of your situation.

bigbill's picture
i pray to the Christian god

i pray to the Christian god Jesus the Christ, he is in me thru the gifting of the Holy Spirit.Jesus said in the gospel of john chapter 14 that no one comes to the father except thru him.How do you know that as an atheist your not praying to evil spirits such as the devil.being objective and not calling out to whom you are praying is very dangerous.Why can`t you recognize God for what he is? ...He is not just your consciousness he is a realty outside time and matter.As for the bible, Yes i have faith that it is the word of God ant turn to it regulary.Can you or any agnostic or atheist prove otherwise? The bible is the holy book of Gods revelation to mankind.IThe bible tells me about who God is and what his attributes areIt has been said that the Bible is Gods love letters to humanity.So i don't believe in just something, I believe in something and in somebody.Jesus Christ thru the working of the comforter the holy spirit is in me.As for you praying to an objective source do you mean in participating in channeling like Séance.What you are doing incorrectly is dabbling with the occult.Thats why catholic priest say and pray in the name of Jesus Christ.My recommendation to you and anybody else is to address your Prays to Jesus Christ, And him alone.

curtisabass's picture
Wow, I'd forgotten how insane

Wow, I'd forgotten how insane the "flock" can be. Reminds me of the movie Rain with Joan Crawford with a vacant stare mouthing platitudes. Scary that those people are out there.

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