Hello everyone, I am relatively new to Atheist Republic, this is my first post(I haven't gone through all the posts to see if this was already discussed, so I am sorry if there is any repetition). Here's some background information, both of my parents are from Trinidad and were raised believing in Hinduism. I was born in America and was not brought up religiously.
We never went to church but we always celebrated Christmas, and athough it is a religious holiday I never viewed it as such. I believed in Santa until I was about 9 and after that to now we exchanged gifts and used the time off(from work) to visit family. My cousin's wife is extremely and painfully religious and it's hard to have a discussion with her without having her mention something about god.
I am curious if other atheists still participate in religious holidays if they were brought up religiously.
And if you do still participate how do you deal/navigate the holidays with religious family members or other people?
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Welcome to AR!
Well, I think of many of them as holidays, not holy days. Your cousin's wife should be introduced to history. Most holidays were co-opted by xtians from pagans. Read up on it, and the next time she does that, you can cite facts...always a fun thing to do!
Thank you so much for responding!
I will definitely look into that so I can have more knowledge on the subject. It is getting increasingly more frustrating seeing her post on facebook (especially with Easter recently passing). Bottom line is I need to do more research, part of the issue is that i dont want to seem like a hypocrite for enjoying holidays.
FuriouslyCurious,
As Paul said in Colossians 2:16 (NLT) = "So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths."
Thank you for responding and thanks for the bible passage. I will definitely use it as a counter.
Welcome to AR! :)
I cannot relate to well to your situation so I don't know if I can give any good advice.
When I come across deeply religious I typically smile and nod. If they want to have a conversation with me about their god, or try to recruit me into their religion I then speak my piece. They usually get upset and the conversation ends tensely, (for them.) If I for some reason need to be around or work that person in the future I try to avoid the conversation entirely.
"I will respect your opinion if you will respect mine." And leave it at that.
Thank you, and thanks for responding.
Part of the issue that bothers me so much is that she uses her religion as she interprets it so shes very hypocritical and I can see her saying something to me that since I celebrate gift giving in December that somehow I'm a hypocrite too. I guess honestly I don't really care what she calls me because she's very fake but she has a way of making others look like "the bad guy". And another thing is that the things she says are sometimes so repulsive that I can't just "agree to disagree" or respect her opinion
That is very fair. You should be able to defend yourself if someone calls you a hypocrite, especially if they themselves are very hypocritical. And I can see it being quite difficult staying quiet when listening to repulsive things.
Why does a deeply religious person get to dominate the conversation just because they get much more easily offended then everyone else? Why do atheist and reasonable people have to be the adults in a conversation just because atheist generally are far more secure in their knowledge then a typical deeply religious person? (All those enormous contradictions in their religion eats away at their subconscious even if their conscious mind won't recognize the contradictions and large logic flaws.)
I realize there is not much good advice in there. I wish you the best of luck in dealing with this person, and know you always have support over here at AR.
I personally think that deeply religious people are deeply emotional too, it goes hand in hand and when anything is said against their beliefs they lash out because of all the extra emotion. It blocks rational thinking. And they often seem to think you have a problem with them and not their ideas. Also it is interesting how these same people use beliefs as facts when they aren't. Also, I'm not sure how some people are educted but still religious, to me this doesnt make sense.
"Here's some background information, both of my parents are from Trinidad and were raised believing in Hinduism. I was born in America and was not brought up religiously."
Same here. Although my parents did raise me with Hinduism, They never overdid it with me. I know how you feel about your cousins wife though. I have family and family friends who are super religious too. I remember just recently, One of my uncles started the longest lecture about religion.. in response to a question I asked which was "Hey! how are the kids?"
In short, I'll participate in all the major holidays. As for our cultural Hoidays like Diwali, Pagwah, ect. I do it for the fun of it. It also It keeps me in touch with the community whereas I normally prefer to hang out with a more diverse crowd.
All in all... yeah. I still celebrate holidays and there's nothing wrong or hypocritical about it. It's just enjoying life. Welcome to the AR : )
Thank you for responding to my post.
I completely empathize with what you go through, my parents did teach me about my culture and we did certain religious things but they were very careful not to take it too far because they wanted my brother and I to choose if we wanted to believe in a god(s).
And yes! I have the same type of uncle who I just try to keep it short with because he goes on and on about how blessed everything is and has all these crazy rationalizations...I love the guy but I can only take so much LOL.
Thanks for letting me know how you feel about holidays, I love experiencing culture and furthering my knowledge.
I habe a follow-up question, when you participate in the major and cultural holidays do your family/friends know that you're an atheist?
Good question, so far my parents and close friends know how I see things. That's about it, but That's my choice.
I will tell you that I typically avoid the religious conversation with others. It doesn't equate to being fake. If people wanna bless me for this and that, I just smile and give them thanks because of the fact that they mean well. figures of speech. That's all those are. There's no stress if you decide so. My 2 cents.
Thank you for your honest input, it is much more difficult to try to explain to everyone why you are atheist when you come from a religious family. I will try to take it as such but sometimes I feel like certain people pray/bless others to make themselves feel better because it is literally just words. Let's say you're going through a rough time and someone says they will pray for you I think that they could be more helpful if they asked what they could do to help. I think that saying they will pray is like they think that they are making a difference when you still have that issue going on. Sorry if thats confusing.
@FuriouslyCurious: My grandfather grew up between the Muslim and Christian faith, but he was an atheist, my mother is an atheist, my father was a Christian, but he never tried to have his children religious, my brother is an atheist, like me, and my ten-year-old niece hasn't the slightest interest in religion because she has been culturally never seen to be mixed up in religious rites of any kind... except parties. We gather for Christmas dinner, celebrate Hanukkah with friends participate in the dinner on December 20, also look for time to make some dinner with friends celebrating Ramadan, celebrate the end of the Christian year and the end of the Chinese year, also participating in dinner with friends, and for some years we are invited to participate in Diwali in November. We do not participate in the rites, but we do participate in the party, the children have a lot of fun, we do too and there is nothing wrong.
I don't agree with atheists who think that human celebrations for reasons other than atheists should not be done, in my view humans should always take advantage to meet, eat and have fun for whatever reason... well, me and my niece. Another issue is that they try to make you a participant in religious rites, something that happens to us mostly in the Hanukkah and Ramadan, but when we declined they treat us with much courtesy and have never bothered or bothered us for it.
Although I understand your problem with the religious relative, ours is an 80 year old aunt who, incidentally, although we ignore her, she never fails in her efforts. If she doesn't bother, or put in preacher plan, we supported her.
Thanks for your comment, it's nice to that other atheists can enjoy a holiday (or perks of the holiday) without being forced/guilted to partake in the religious part. It isn't a holiday but I went to one of my best friends sister's quinceañera a few years back and there was a church ceremony and then an after party. I went to both, and felt like I would burst into flames walking into the church haha but honestly it wasn't so bad, people were allowed to get blessings afterwards and I didn't want any so I didnt partake in that. I did feel uncomfortable the entire time. Also, many people did not attend the church part (about 4 times the amount at church were at the after party) and it was optional but very curious to me. Seemed like the important part was the party afterwards, either way I had a blast even though there was a church involved.
@FuriouslyCurious
Welcome to AR. Enjoy the holidays.
Although I cannot identify your predicament, I can sympathize. I hate the holidays, ALL holidays. In the USA every weekend, every holiday, has become an excuse for rednecks and obnoxious people to get drunk high be loud and act like fools. I absolutely hate it. I can't stand the noise, the stupidity, and the danger it poses to people and property. Firecrackers, guns, drunk asses driving boats with complete disregard of everyone and everything. Trash is strewn everywhere. Roving bands of unsupervised youths bent on some sort of destructive behavior. No respect or consideration. Drunk drivers high drivers a complete breakdown of civility.
Thank you for responding and I am very glad that you brought this part up of what holidays have become. And in the states (from what I know), as I am sure you've noticed there are "national days" for every single day of the year, like national peanut butter and jelly day, national beer day, national ice cream day. You can search online every day to find out what "national" day it is. It's ridiculous. Gives everyone a reason to partake in nonsense and big corporations to sell more product. It is extremely annoying.
Also, I very much agree that it has become an excuse for reckless, obnoxious behaviour. Maybe there are underlying reasons for this.
Maybe waking up every day to stressful/non ideal situtions leads people to believe that they deserve to be able to act any type of way even if it destroys the earth and damages others property or quiet existance. Unfortunately at the moment I dont have any ideas on how to fix this.
I dislike (but not hate,) many of the holidays for some of the reasons you post Mykcob4. Obviously as an atheist I roll my eyes at all the religious holidays. But it is an excuse to be with family and friends, take a day off etc, it is not all bad.
Another thing I dislike about holidays is that almost every holiday, (esp. the religious ones,) turn into a giant commercialized money grab. And the religious folk that made that particular day holy, most of em are perfectly fine with large commercial entities making huge piles of cash off their religion day, they do not even question it, in fact they vigorously defend it often times.
"It was god's plan for chocolate and candy companies to make 100's of millions of dollars in revenue every Easter!" The day Jesus supposedly got resurrected equal 10's of millions of dollars of cash for big shareholders of chocolate/candy companies.
Don't even get me started on christmas!
For Christmas I usually only get people things that I think they would like and I have been told that I am a very good gift giver, I never expect anything in return and honestly do it because I want to. I guess what im getting at is I dont just get something that's heavily promoted/advertised or something that the person would never use, I am not sure if that makes it any better but it is quite frustrating to see how people spend hundreds of dollars on useless gifts. I also think that the majority of people get someone something so they wont feel awkward or uncomfortable, which I think is entirely because of heavy promotion/advertising that guilt people into thinking it is necessary, and other reasons as well. I have to be honest I do enjoy going the day after to get the cheap, leftover themed candy. Greed has turned holidays into disgusting events, I try to seperate myself from that behavior, it just seems so dramatic.
My parents are over the top evangelical. Easter was a real bitch this year. They're really starting to dig in now as to why I never want to go to church. It's a huge pain in the ass. I can tell they have been discussing their strategy to save me when Im not around.
I had a hilarious conversation with my mother about forgiveness over the weekend. She informed me of a bible study they had the other day where they learned all about the man who was crucified on the cross next to Jesus. This is the murderer who Jesus supposedly forgave from the cross. My mothers words were, "Did you know that he was a serial killer?!?!". I damn near spit out my coffee in laughter. She acts as though there was a 20/20 expose or something.
Then there's my dad. He had a "near death experience" a few months ago so he will not shut the fuck up about religion.
Yikes JB. I salute you for ducking out under all that evangelicalism. I am sure you have a lot of good insight to give to others on this board about that journey and the issues face to this day.
Thanks for being a part of these boards and sharing your insights.
I would not have a problem with her convictions. She is who she is and I would not be privileged, nor bother myself, to dissuade her from being herself. I'm an atheist, which is to say I'm not one to be interested in the hocus-pocus of others, but my tolerance of them is resolute to the satisfaction of a peaceful co-existence without making a stink of things.
I simply tell people now I hold my religious convictions as very personal and nobody's business. Better to be shunned for thinking I distrust people than to suffer them otherwise, and religious convictions can cobble up some heaping helpings of otherwise.
I get that her company might put you off your favorite beverage but she is just one of many such distasteful happenstances in life.
One piece of advice - You can pick your family as you would your friends if you've the courage to choose as you need to.
I can relate. I have a very religious family, but not my immediate family, thankfully. My aunt and uncle on my mom's side of the family are incredibly Christian, and annoy the living hell out of me. Every holiday, I struggle to avoid conversation. My uncle's dad, especially, can go nowhere in conversation without gushing about the "love of Christ and the miracle of salvation". My family doesn't know I'm an atheist yet, simply because I've never been asked. It's generally accepted that I believe in God like the rest of them. It's the only reason I'm technically "closeted", because nobody has asked or gotten suspicious of anything. As for how to enjoy the holidays, I just play along. When in prayer, I play on my phone because nobody's looking anyway. On Christmas, I celebrate Isaac Newton's birthday by dropping rocks off of my roof and decorating my spectroscope (Yes, I have one of those).
What a cool christmas tradition you do! I am embarrassed that I did not know Issac Newton birthday fell on the 25th. (or is it close to the 25th?) ah well a quick google will answer that...
January 4th, close enough.
I was skeptical when I learned it was on Christmas, so I too googled it. At the time, birthdates were rarely kept perfectly (inaccurate celestial dates and date keeping methods combined with general lack of care about the subject, I suppose). So, the ballpark answer was Christmas day, since it was in the season. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it was simply in December or January. I just keep it simple and say it was Christmas, considering that's what most people agree is correct. It really doesn't matter, in the scheme of things.
I can relate. I have a very religious family, but not my immediate family, thankfully. My aunt and uncle on my mom's side of the family are incredibly Christian, and annoy the living hell out of me. Every holiday, I struggle to avoid conversation. My uncle's dad, especially, can go nowhere in conversation without gushing about the "love of Christ and the miracle of salvation". My family doesn't know I'm an atheist yet, simply because I've never been asked. It's generally accepted that I believe in God like the rest of them. It's the only reason I'm technically "closeted", because nobody has asked or gotten suspicious of anything. As for how to enjoy the holidays, I just play along. When in prayer, I play on my phone because nobody's looking anyway. On Christmas, I celebrate Isaac Newton's birthday by dropping rocks off of my roof and decorating my spectroscope (Yes, I have one of those).
FuriouslyCurious,
As it says in Amos 5:21 (CEB) = "I hate, I reject your festivals; I don’t enjoy your joyous assemblies."
&
Isaiah 1:14 (CEV) = "I hate your New Moon Festivals and all others as well. They are a heavy burden I am tired of carrying."
Sometimes you just have to say how you feel.