Just throwing it out there. I've always thought that marriage is another mess who's basis was religion. The "vows" that a couple takes in front of "God," are not only unrealistic, but statistics overwhelmingly prove that marriage dosen't work...and the sacred "vows" are thrown out the window. Too many of the "believers" that go to church every Sunday and make the sign of the cross are hyppocrites, and are cheating on their spouses. Lets face it, being with someone for the rest of your life might sound like a good idea at the time, but it is an unrealistic expectation of human behavior. Any other subject in this world, you are told to change it up, don't do the same thing everyday, broaden your horizons, don't be with the same people all the time, meet new and different people...EXCEPT marriage. Marriage CAN work for some, but it is very, very rare if the couple is TRULY happy. It simply isn't realistic, just like everything else that religion preaches. There are just too many "intangables" for it to work the majority of the time. We are human beings, NOT robots. I honestly don't know what a logical alternative would be to 2 people who feel AT THE TIME that they want to stay together. Maybe someone out there could suggest somethging that would make sense...but as far as I am concerned, the mess of marriage comes from a religious base. Any other thoughts out there?
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The concept of two people metaphorically binding themselves to each other predates all modern religions, and probably predates it in its entirety. Religion simply co-opted marriage and claimed they created it, like everything else. That being said, it is all about the differences in people. MOST people wouldn't want their significant other to be cheating on them, we are petty an jealous creatures, and sometimes reality doesn't conform to our expectations. So what? That doesn't mean there is anything bad, mean, or evil about trying. Also, for some of us it does work out, as I have been married and faithful for over thirteen years.
I also know married couples that have "an arrangement", wherein the main priority for them is that they put each other before anyone they may be having relations with. Seems to work fine for them, and I don't judge them for it. Marriage isn't some covenant between a couple and god, but an agreement between consenting adults, god isn't really part of the equation most of the time which is as it should be.
The overwhelming majority of marriages that I know of take place in a church, or other religious building, and vows are taken in front of a priest, rabbi, or other qualified official and whatever the"God" of choice is. The couple is then "married" and it is said that you have taken these vows in front of God, and the church, and they are not to be broken. An agreement between consenting adults is not called a marriage, nor is it legally recognized as a marriage. What you are talking about is an "arrangement" as you stated. People do not have to be married to be together...which I agree with, and may possibly be the better way to go without bringing into it all the church, religious, God stuff...because after all is said and done, and all the promising before God, more than half (I think it's 60% now) the marriages end up in divorce...throwing out everything the couple promised in front of God. It means nothing. It's all balony. The scariest thing is, more and more couples are divorcing after 20, 30, or more years of marriage.
"The overwhelming majority of marriages that I know of take place in a church, or other religious building, and vows are taken in front of a priest, rabbi, or other qualified official and whatever the"God" of choice is."
That is the couples choice, it isn't my place to tell them where to have their ceremony, I had mine conducted by a justice of the peace. The marriage license is a legal contract, conferring certain legal benefits and protections for spouses, it is a secular document. The couple themselves have the choice between a secular and religious ceremony.
"The couple is then "married" and it is said that you have taken these vows in front of God, and the church, and they are not to be broken."
HAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, sure, that makes a lot of difference.
"An agreement between consenting adults is not called a marriage, nor is it legally recognized as a marriage."
It is when you formalize it with a marriage license.
"What you are talking about is an "arrangement" as you stated."
No, I was discussing some people I knew that were actually married, but chose a different sort of relationship than I did. I don't judge them, and if it works for them, more power to them.
"People do not have to be married to be together...which I agree with, and may possibly be the better way to go without bringing into it all the church, religious, God stuff...because after all is said and done, and all the promising before God, more than half (I think it's 60% now) the marriages end up in divorce...throwing out everything the couple promised in front of God."
It is ALL personal choice, and therefore, not my place to interfere. Though, as I said, without the legal rights and protections afforded by a marriage license thing can get tricky.
"It means nothing. It's all balony."
I am sorry to hear that, I will remember to tell all my LBGT friends that the thing they have spent decades fighting for is meaningless bologna nothingness, I am sure they will appreciate that...
"The scariest thing is, more and more couples are divorcing after 20, 30, or more years of marriage."
So what? I fail to see how that affects things at all. In a free society, with the freedom to marry, interference should be limited to the parties directly involved. Don't want a religious marriage? Don't get one, secular services abound. You can even be married by Elvis if you so choose(well, probably NOT the REAL Elvis, but...). Don't want a marriage at all? Don't get one, there are no secret stormtroopers waiting for you to fornicate so they can perform a shotgun wedding. It is ALL personal choice, precisely as it should be.
Marriage was for the retention of property for the family at the time of death of the patriarch instead of relinquishing it to the state and for treaties between tribes or families. The religious concept of marriage comes way later.
The rites, ceremony, pageantry, and other outward shows of traditional pomp aside, marriage is not just a monogamous oddity of life. It's a companionship. I could have continued knocking knees with fresh meat for the rest of my life but there was a turning point when that wasn't enough.
In my world, searching for the mother of my kids became a curiosity that I did not think was going to happen for me. It did, though, and I was 30 years old when chance put us together. It was another 8 years of companionship and love before the first little rug rat came along and 5 years later till the last one (of two) made his world debut.
What I don't put in lock-step with the institution of monogamy is anything metaphysical. You have to be pretty damned thick to think that because well before there was notions of gods (holy matrimony) monogamy was present. Not saying polygamy wasn't a natural way of life but there were people who preferred to bind themselves to each other for life.
Monogamy wasn't at all a concoction of some religion. It was a naturally occurring characteristic of two people who chose to adopt it. Much later it became celebrated as a noble thing in the face of a rampant polygamy where children were running wild and at best were orphans of the state. So, religion stepped in to impart its morality onto monogamy by making it a celebrated event in the eyes of an approving god for too people to commit their lives exclusively to each other. Holy matrimony was born and polygamy was eschewed as amoral. Sewing seed was relegated to agricultural endeavors and man hasn't had a happy day since.
So, monogamy was just another facet of normal life that religion sided with and celebrated. Nothing more. It was already alive and well before some clerics decided to claim it as their god's business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP0bLdOplyk
Fantastic Jeff!! I laughed my ass off! These videos are great!
Marriage serves an evolutionary purpose, and there are some note worthy advantages;
- limits the spread of STDs and disease in general
- provides a steady partner, best friend, and partner in crime. While the prospect of having an exclusive relationship indefinitely might be daunting to some, let's face it; when you're old, wrinkly, and grey, who else is going to be there for you but the person who knows you best and is invested in you long-term?
- traditionally provides a consistent male and female role model for children. Even same-sex couples tend to adopt corresponding gender roles.
- provides shared household and/or financial responsibilities and benefits
- provides more stable personal accountability and emotional support, as one's family can be like one's team.
- limits the distractions of dating needed to better focus on career objectives.
- married couples tend to live longer healthier lives
- better insures care in old age
- it is a social status symbol, whether real or perceived, that one has one's life together.
I find that the reasons marriages fail are often BECAUSE OF RELIGIOUS INFLUENCE and not in spite of it. Examples might be young christian couples that save their virginity and rush into marriage only to later realize they should have dated around more to find someone more compatible, or the flawed notion that God has a "Soul mate" waiting for you but as soon as obstacles come up in a relationship back-rationalizing that the person might not have been "The One" after all, or the prude who is frigid because of their religious upbringing and spurs their partner to look elsewhere for gratification. It's possible that even cheaters and womanizers exhibit sex addiction, which can develop as a polar reaction to a sexually oppressive environment, which again comes back to religious influence.
There are so many interesting and inspiring people out there in this world, all sharing the same human experience we do, the notion that we're not ALL somehow "soul mates" is deeply wrong.
Speaking as a married man, marriage can be tough at times and requires effort. Ultimately, love is a conscious commitment one makes on a daily basis, as the things that hold a relationship together often change and evolve over time.
Again on the notion that marriages often fail BECAUSE OF RELIGIOUS INFLUENCE and not in spite of it, there have been studies that say that men who as infants were circumcised, a religious practice, are 5 times more likely to suffer erectile dysfunction later in life, which can also put strain on intimacy in a marriage.
Circumcision removes the male foreskin, which contains a rich density of blood vessels. When it is amputated, it sets up vascular trauma, increasing the likelihood later in adulthood of small blood clots leading to partial tissue paralysis. Not even viagra can remedy that.
Circumcision, or "bris" as it is called among Jews, literally means "To break". It has been argued that circumcision leads to penile fixation and an increased incidence of sexual perversion. In addition, countries with more circumcised men have higher divorce rates.
- Something to think about.