Religions are not the cause of all the major wars on this world humans are squabbling other the smallest of differences between each other from genetic differences to what deity they pray to, what deity they don't pray to or they don't follow any deity. People in power use their political or religious positions to control others without question and use the power they have to control those that follow their ideologies and force it on to others that do not follow those ideologies of humans didn't exist then religion would not exist and war would not exist as there would be no one to fight
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Hmmm... Well, I must say, that is fascinating. Who would have thunk it? HUMANS cause wars? Wow.... And to think all this time I thought it was Emperor Penguins that caused all the wars. I have been enlightened.
I dunno, those emperor penguins are a shifty lot.
On a serious note, our mostly symbiotic gut bacteria has been increasingly shown to really affect our moods.
"The shit is real" :)
@ tin-man
I'm only stating this as most atheist's anti-theists think that all wars are caused by religion and that a magical book/books have told the people that start wars that war and the destruction of non-believers is the only way forward
"most atheist's anti-theists think that all wars are caused by religion"
isn't it not?....
"magical book/books"
we call it preschool books...you can fool the kids from this stage of year, and enslave them to the world of delusion..
Ali, you wrote, “I'm only stating this as most atheist's anti-theists think that all wars are caused by religion...”
Please provide data to back up this claim.
I strongly disagree that "all wars are caused by religion". Of course strife can be fueled by other factors.
People do the actual fighting and killing. But such a simplistic statement completely ignores the causes. And religion can be the fuel that triggers human suffering.
Of course humans are the cause of wars. Nobody is disputing that. I would agree that "humans" are the problem but I suspect for different reasons, we are only a partially rational species remember. Paraphrasing Hitchens: The way we are and the atrocities we have committed is exactly what you'd expect to be made by a species that's about half a chromosome away from being a chimpanzee. But we can also change for the better. We are getting more and more intelligent albeit slowly. We learn and grow as a species.
What we should do is pinpoint the reasons as to why some humans are the problem. By saying it's humans and leaving it there is not helping. It is, in fact, contributing to the problems. We need to confront the problems head-on. Humans are usually influenced by ideological and dogmatic beliefs. Religion is very much involved. To say it's "not religion" is disingenuous and wrong. Religion is demonstrably a huge reason as to why humans are the problem. It allows people to do and say horrible things and justify them, for no actual good reason at all.
I see it the other way around. It is the reason why religion teaches to go beyond the law to fulfil God's plans. It is the fact that people think their divine law can go over the laws we actually have. They have a 'divine' mission that is above anything else. Giving people this mentality do not lead to peaceful outcomes. Fanatics thinking it is justifiable to commit suicide and take innocent people out or to kill a group of people because God has given one group of people the right to the 'promised lands' or the persecuted people of Jewish descent because they have been accused of - deicide or poisoned the wells.
“You do not need the Bible to justify love, but no better tool has been invented to justify hate.” – Richard Weatherwax
Yes, slavery racism, slavery, wars may exist without religion but it is a religion that appeals this hatred and bigotry in us. I mean the bible was used to justify slavery ffs. And as I said Christians have been persecuting Jewish people for centuries because they believed they have 'poisoned the wells.'
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” – Steven Weinberg
A mentality of totalitarianism and self-righteous indignation and divine permission given to people do not lead to peaceful outcomes.
In contrast, if you look at the secularist Scandinavian region (Denmark, Norway, and Sweden), Czech Republic, Finland, and France for example... are amongst the happiest countries in the world. The fact that religiously free societies with a proportionally large number of people who don't believe in a religion like Denmark, Iceland, Switzerland, Norway, for example, are generally more peaceful and happier than otherwise is evidence that the perception of needing religious based laws like the outdated 10 commandments to know right from wrong, is incorrect.
@OP
All wars are caused by humans. Yep, but meaningless statement.
Kind of like saying: all wars are based on scarcity. (Of land, resources, women, followers, etc) Also true, but meaningless.
A better but very incomplete statement would be: division rather than unity is frequently a major contributing factor to wars, human nature to tribe up and instead of cooperating with others, finding differences, leads to war.
The very idea of local sport teams is a recent modern day form of this, we all see how intensely some people follow their local sports team. How much they love and support the team they identify with and hate and wish the destruction upon the other team, even if they are just sitting at home watching it on TV.
Superiority is the main cause of war and the main reason why the human race can not unite as most humans see themselves as superior to others over the smallest genetic differences instead of unite through our similarities
"Superiority is the main cause"
isn't your god superior?why can't he do anything about it? of course its superior on everything right? its god..
so why?
@ Qu@si
I have no god I may have a creator but only as in what may or may not of started the creation of the universe but they are probably as mortal as i am and as superior as you are to me
"I have no god I may have a creator "
"they are probably as mortal as i am"
hey, t-man we found the living omnist...hahahah....
amazing....i didn't understand what you were saying but..wow...
a flat-earther and at the same time a omnist..
oh my fucking god...you really something...
Humans wage war, but their motivation may be economic, territorial, ego, or religion.
@ David killens
All of the motivations you mentioned in last comment are all things that humans use to make themselves feel superior to others. As in I have more land/wealth/offspring or just feeling superior to others ie large ego. Even down to my deity is better than yours because of the amount of rain that has fallen on their land/country. Most humans want to be better than others and see that as being superior to others and judge those that disagree as inferior
Ali, you asserted, “ Most humans want to be better than others and see that as being superior to others and judge those that disagree as inferior”
Please back this up with actual data.
NO
I mentioned ego as one motivation to cause conflict. But that is not the sole motivator.
Do you know the fundamental causes for WW2? It was economic, both Germany and Japan were quickly becoming industrial giants, and the USA and Britain wanted to hold them down. Ego had nothing to do with what started WW2.
But religion is one big motivator, I cited a few examples of wars started purely on religious grounds. The Crusades were sanctioned by the Pope, he was the one who kick-started that era of horror.
@ Qu@si
Even if the universe started from a spark that would mean that spark is my creator as it began the creation of the universe
You really need to give your personal definition of "universe" and "creator".
@ Qu@si
What do you mean by flat earther ?
@Ali: Humans are the cause of all wars
Humans are also the cause of all gods.
"that spark is my creator"
see how humans are capable of creating gods?
@ algebe
Humans are the cause of all god's but it also humans that use those god's to push there own agendas on to others and see those that follow them as mindless drones that don't have the intellect to question the people that they follow.
@Ali: it also humans that use those god's to push there own agendas on to others
Exactly. And most wars wouldn't be possible without that mechanism to suppress our fear and consciences.
@ David killens
At the time when ww2 began the UK was in a state of appeasement and agreed to sign to the Munich agreement and declared war on Germany after invasion of Poland. The USA only officially joined ww2 after pearl harbour
sheesh, I was talking about the root cause, which is a situation that took over decade to evolve. Each nation was slowly and inexorably marching to war. I'm talking big picture.
@David Killens:
World War II started with the signing of the Treaty of Versailles in 1919.
That's my point.
With Japan, they quickly climbed out of a feudal society into an industrial nation, and thus sought to expand in order to secure assets such as oil and minerals.
The very sad irony is that after millions had died in the horrors of war, we find that each had climbed into being major economic powers as soon as the wounds of war had healed.
Billions of people follow religious texts where their gods are said to be the instigator of wars. It is certainly possible for a religion to explicitly forbid war, but it would be peculiar to place all the blame for war exclusively on thoughtless human while placing no blame on hateful ideologies.
The thread topic is too general in nature. It would be absurd to say "Humans are incapable of doing good" or "The good parts of religious practice should be ignored because of the bad parts."
Ali,
Here is something I have written.
"I have never truly believed in ANY religion, especially the Absolutist religions. There is no philosophical ideology more divisive than religion. And, the worst part of ANY religion is that it is an ideology that is implicitly and explicitly protected from any and all criticism from both within and without. Why should any ideology, especially religion, be so privileged? Can you not see how disastrous this way of thinking can be, and is? I firmly believe, and shall take this belief to my grave, that the human species would have been much better off had there NEVER been ANY form of religion. It is due to religions, and their way of thinking, and their theological disagreements, that has created the greatest destruction, injury, death, harm, immorality, wickedness, and abuse to the human species than any other cause. The main problem is not religious fundamentalism, but the fundamentals of religion. Ultimately, it is Religion that is Humankind’s worst enemy." — RMF Runyan
It is NOT humans. It is philosophical differences between the religious ideologies that CAUSE humans to wage war. If we did not have any religion, I would guarantee there would have been far less wars.
But since you seem to be an Absolutist, that the indoctrinative practice of religious training your mind has been subjected to causes you to ignore evidence, logic, and reason. Thus, unless you were to truly open your mind, you shall never see the true truth.
rmfr
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