AJ777: Jesus paid the price for sin, this does not make sin disappear or have no consequences.
The free will choice to not want to be in the presence of God for eternity and be absent from all goodness and it’s source causes internal torment not torture. Those in hell would still not choose to leave though.
The individual is made in the image of God and of more value than angels.
An atheist can do good without God, true virtue vs common virtue. Atheists can do acts of true virtue, doing right because it is right, not for selfish reasons or out of fear and pride. Only in Christianity can one do a good act because without objective morality good is a made up idea.

1 John 2:2 says that:
"He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

1 Timothy 4:10 says that:
We trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe.

You seem to be saying that Jesus is the Savior of all men, but that he tortures most of them for eternity.

You also seem to be saying that objective morality exists, but selectively stops existing in cases where individuals live good lives but happen not to be Christian, in which case their good deeds somehow stop being good.

The bible says that atheists are incapable of doing good, even though the biggest donators to charity in history have been atheists or agnostic.

@ AJ777

What is that old adage about horse and water?

AJ777: “Jesus paid the price for sin, this does not make sin disappear or have no consequences.”

First, you have to prove Hey-soos actually existed. There is absolutely no evidence Hay-soos even existed.

AJ777: “The free will choice to not want to be in the presence of God for eternity and be absent from all goodness and it’s source causes internal torment not torture.”

Who Sends Who to Hell?

I do not remember if the Qu'ran says the same, but I do know the Christians always preach that it is NOT their God who sends people to Hell, but it is the people who choose to go to Hell. I think you Christians are so full of bullshit, that that is the reason why you cannot smell the stench of what you preach. However, I beg to differ that is the people who choose to send themselves to Hell.

• Is your deity responsible for the creation of the universe?
• Is your deity responsible for the creation of the heavens?
• Is your deity responsible for the creation of the Earth?
• Is your deity responsible for the creation of Heaven?
• Is your deity responsible for the creation of Hell?
• Is there nothing that occurs without the will of your deity?
• Is your deity responsible for the criteria (rules) of who shall go to Heaven or Hell?

If the answer you gave for all the questions above is “Yes,” then it is your diety who is ultimately responsible for those it chooses to send to Hell. Anyone who forces criteria as to who gets saved and who gets damned is the same who that is responsible. Forcing such criteria no longer allows the freedom of choice. Think Critically about it.

AJ777: “Those in hell would still not choose to leave though.”

I'd rather be Hell than to be subservient to a jealous, mysogynistic, infanticidal, unforgiving, bloodthirsty genocidal ethnic cleanser, megalomanical, sadomasichistic, malevolent monster. You do realize the ONLY thing you are gong to be doing in Heaven? Kneeling and bowing before such a monster and singing "holy, holy, holy" for the rest of eternity.

AJ777: “The individual is made in the image of God and of more value than angels.”

Actually it is reversed. Man made God in his image: jealous, mysogynistic, infanticidal, unforgiving, bloodthirsty genocidal ethnic cleanser, megalomanical, sadomasichistic, malevolent monster. Robert A Heilein: “Men rarely, if ever, manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled brat.”

AJ777: “An atheist can do good without God, true virtue vs common virtue.”

You do realize that atheists are actually more moral than theists?

Some GIS Research Into The GOOD Of Religion

“Current research evidence does not support the common view that religiosity is positively correlated with good morality,” said Sam Harris.

In fact, I used QGIS software, and the TIGER data from the Census Bureau and crime data files from the FBI to see how correct his statement is. It took me several months, but my research has shown that the more religious a population, the higher the crime rates, specifically violent crime. While the same research shows that the more educated (thus less religious) a population, the lower the crime rates. If religion is so damned good for us, then why does it seem to spawn so much more violent crime?

Here are some research numbers. This is only in the United States, perhaps the most religious nation on Earth (excepting some Muslim nations). Green = Highly educated; persons with at least a Master’s degree or higher, or multiple (2+) Baccalaureate or higher degrees. Red = Highly religious; persons with low education (no high school diploma), Associate’s degree or lower, or no degrees.

• Of the 25 states with the lowest rates of crime, 5 are red, 20 are green (a 1:4 ratio).
• Of the 25 states with the highest rates of crime, 19 are red, 6 are green (a 3:1 ratio).
• Of the 25 most dangerous cities, 22 are red, 3 are green (a 7:1 ratio).
• Of the 20 most safest cities, only 2 are red, 18 are green (a 1:9 ratio).
• Of the 19 states with the highest rates of burglary, 16 are red, 3 are green (a 5:1 ratio).
• Of the 22 states with the highest rates of theft, 18 are red, 4 are green (a 4:1 ratio).
• Of the 22 states with the highest rates of murder, 19 are red, 3 are green (a 6:1 ratio).

Notes on how I chose these listings. With the cities/states I chose enough from the list to get at least “3” of whichever color. The only exceptions are the 20 most safest cities due to the fact that to get a third “red” city, I would have had to take the top 38 most safest cities making it 3 are red, 35 are green giving a ratio of 1:12. I figured a 1:9 ratio was bad enough. And to really add insult to injury, to get the fourth “red” safest city, it would been 52 cities making it 4 are red, 48 are green, still a 1:12 ratio. And you call us atheists dangerous and immoral, and to be trusted less than rapists and murderers.

And to add more insult to injury, the first red “most safest” city does not appear until number 16. And to pour salt in the wound, in the “most dangerous” cities, the three green ones are numbers 19, 22, and 25. So much for atheism being so dangerous.

On the highest theft, I could have stopped at 21 cities making 18 are red, 3 are green. Since adding the 22nd city would lower the ratio (from 6:1 to 4:1) I decided to be a nice guy and cut you Religious Absolutists some slack. I also made it match the number of highest murder states.

I made the choices above just so I would not have to listen to your whiney-ass pleas about being a vindictive atheist. See, us atheists are actually good people.

Reiteration: If religion is so damned good for us, then why does it seem to spawn so much more violent crime?

These I could NOT cut any slack for you Religious Absolutists. More shocking numbers on the goodness of religion (researched as an afterthought):

• 93% of convicted child molesters identify themselves as Christian ShockedSmiley (1K) (a 13:1 ratio).
• 84% of all inmates identify themselves as religious believers (a 5:1 ratio).
• 0.02% of inmates identify themselves as Atheist, meaning only 1 in 5000 are Atheist.

Look again at the first one. This definitely warrants: “God Damn, what the fuck is wrong with you Christians?” I mean, “93% of convicted child molesters identify themselves as Christian?” What the Hell kind of Fucked Up crap is that?! And since, when?, the mid-80s, this has really come back to bite you Christians in the ass. Especially the Catholic branch of Christianity, but all of Christianity is guilty.

AJ777: “Atheists can do acts of true virtue, doing right because it is right, not for selfish reasons or out of fear and pride.”

Arthur Paliden: “True morality is doing what is right without the threat of divine damnation nor the possibility of divine reward.”

H. L. Mencken: “Morality is doing right, no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, no matter what is right.”

'Nuff said.

AJ777: “Only in Christianity can one do a good act because without objective morality good is a made up idea.”

Steven Weinberg: “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.”

Now to go back and read others' posts.

rmfr

AJ777: "Hitler is in the same state as the most kind and good to have ever lived."

You have that so completely backwards. Hitler was a theist, a Christian, a Catholic. That means he belonged to one of the most evil cults of humanity. Boy, you need to some research before you lie.

rmfr