So this one is for theists obviously, do you think humans have created any fictional deities? If you do how do you know they are fictional?
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Well, dang. No theist responses yet, huh? Shocking. Hmmm....
Okay, just to try to get this things going a bit, I figured George Burns and Morgan Freeman as God would have been first on the list. I mean, they HAVE TO BE fictional, right? After all, the god in the bible is nowhere near as smart or cool as they are.
Ok my bad, I meant created fictional deities that humans worshipped as real. I mean Zeus and Apollo, were once worshipped as real deities, so do theists think they were fictions, and if so other than them falling out of vogue before you were born what makes you think they are fictional? If you'd been born in that epoch you'd have held the same belief as everyone else after all.
Tin-Man,
I'm probably 1 of 2 theists in the forum, so how many responses could you hope to get lol. I actually think this is a great question for a thread; not my fault it is being asked by Sheldon of all people.
Hey, John.
True, you are one of only two or three theists who actually have the intestinal fortitude to get in here and join in the fray on a regular basis. *chuckle* Still, I know there must be many a "lurker" in the neighborhood, and this thread seemed like a nice tempting piece of juicy bait to draw out a few. So far, though, it's just been a bunch of cricket chirping. lol
"I actually think this is a great question for a thread; not my fault it is being asked by Sheldon of all people."
So great in fact that you've neglected to answer it in all your excitement.
Still you got another petty ad hominem In again, that's the main thing.
Ididnt expect you to come anywhere near this if I'm honest, or make any worthwhile contribution. One out of two isn't bad I suppose.
Different deities have different natures. Deities were all worshipped with purpose. Some for good some for bad. Also, some deities are like sigils, you make them from your own mind. The mind is where every mystical work is done.
Yes I realise humans create deities with purpose, that's why and the accompanying religious dogma and doctrine always adhere so closely to the a priori beliefs of the cultures and epochs in which they are created and worshipped. Of course this can only change over time, the beliefs of contemporary theists beyond some core beliefs would be largely unrecognisable to their ancestors of just a few generations ago. However this is not where I was going. I wanted to know if any theists believe that humans have created deities, and worshipped them as real, but that they believe are fictional? If so beyond the obvious fact those deities have fallen out of vogue, how do they know those deities are not real?
It's not a trick question, I am trying to understand what line of reasoning they use to disbelieve all the deities humans have created are fictional, except for one. What is about the Muslim deity that enables Breezy to disbelieve it is real, or the christian deity that causes SFT to disbelieve it is real?
It's a line of reasoning I've not seen pursued on here as far as I am aware. It might provide an edifying concussion.
There were definitely a few tv/rock stars/movie stars that I did worship growing up, maybe not as a deity, but still pretty close to a deity to me in my teenage years. Unfortunately, (fortunately?) I got older and learned these people were definitely flawed like any human and did not deserve idolatry.
@Sheldon Re: OP
Yeah, I knew exactly what you were asking. I like that angle, too. Haven't really thought of it like that before. Just figured I would toss something a little skewed out there at first to see if it would attract any attention. lol Yet still no theists, though. *sigh*
There's something about a question mark at the end of a sentence that sends the likes of Breezy and SFT running for cover. If they refuse to offer any objective reason for their disbelief in all the deities atheists disbelieve in, except one, then one can only infer they don't have any objective reasons, and the distinction is an arbitrary one?
Sheldon
I think you nailed the coffin shut, none of the theist have stepped up to your challenge.
Sheldon's OP:
Let's see...
Yes. I have. Her name is Lysantra Erisa Tinathis Argolan. I misspelled her middle names as one, instead of two. She is an Elfin Goddess whom only I can see and hear. For some reason she will not disclose to me, she will only become visible and aubible for me. No one else. She is also capable of becoming intangible; thus, anything you throw at her just phases right through her. However, she does have some really good ideas...
Well since only I can see and hear Lysantra, she must be fictional. Wait a minute... If I can see and hear her, then she cannot be fictional. She must be real for me. She is only fictional for others. Wait another minute, now... Just because she could be fictional for others, does that mean she really is fictional? But, I can see and hear her, so she cannot be fictional...
AAAAhhhhhh! Wood is burning. Sheldon, go away. That is too confusing...
rmfr
All deities are fake except Aretha. Listen to "Respect" or "Chain of Fools" and hear the voice of the true goddess of song.
I see nothing in your deity that is any less compelling than any of the others.
No theist dared to answer this one. I guess they know that their religion and God is a human construct.
It's a reasonable question I'd have thought. Whether the question makes them weary or not, we will have to infer from their reticence.
It'd be pretty hard for any monotheists to deny that humans have / do create fictional deities. Though obviously this leads to another obvious question. We see theists who deny the existence of each other's deities on here teaming up to attack atheism, through simple expedience. However the accusation and arguments they level at atheism should equally apply to all the deities they themselves don't believe are real.
Duh
@Breezy
You and Sheldon really do not like each other.
Makes me chuckle a bit to myself. But also illustrates why I like debate in this format where everyone can be anonymous. Nothing physically bad can come out of a disagreement here unless the person reveals their identity.
I have always despised mendacity in debate, the pretence of open minded reason when the standard set is the very definition of bias and special pleading.
Breezy got himself off to a bad start on that front, with his farcically dishonest nonsense about slavery being condemned in the bible, and has been relentless in confirming those early suspicions. I'm hardly alone in noticing this as well.
"Duh"
Another prodigious effort. It's always a privilege to watch a university education applied to any topic. Even an as yet incomplete one.
So far John you've offered another of your puerile ad hominem fallacies, and "duh". You're pushing the outside of the envelope here.
How in the world would you know they were fictional? They are all timeless, place-less, omnipotent, omnipresent, invisible and non-corporal. except to those few with whom they opt to reveal themselves. (Ahhhh... To this I offer the cave analogy.)
There is a cave in the woods and we want to know whether or not a bear is living in the cave. We have looked all over inside and around the cave for signs of the bear but none have been found. Still, the bear could have just been out at the time. We put meat and berries in front of the cave but they are never eaten by the bear. We sprinkle white powder on the ground inside and outside the cave but the powder remains undisturbed. We look for all manner of evidence for 2000 years and find nothing at all. At this point, we are fairly certain that the idea of a bear living in the cave is an absolute fiction. And we can apply this same strategy across the board to all manner of natural and mystical phenomena. Could a bear show up.... Okay, it's possible, but at this point in time it is reasonable as hell to say, "There is no bear in the cave."
Is anyone surprised theists who daily waltz through here denigrating atheism as unjustifiable can offer not one word to justify their own disbelief in even one single deity from the thousands they disbelieve are real.
As always one can infer a great deal from such reticence, especially when it contrasts so obviously with their usual verbosity.
No surprise at all! And. I have no idea at all how you and David are able to hang in their with the theists BS for those incredibly long 10 page threads. If fries my brain how a post can state clear facts and yet the theists just continue making blind assertions as if the assertions themselves without evidence or support carry the same weight as actual facts. I am just left wondering what in the hell is wrong with them?
From a neutral perspective, it is difficult to see the evidence for Yahweh or Allah being stronger than the evidence for John Frum (a deity in a cargo cult).
"difficult to see the evidence for Yahweh or Allah being stronger than the evidence for John Frum (a deity in a cargo cult)."
Or even as strong as the evidence for Frum. What's noteworthy here is that belief vs non-belief is merely a matter of perspective. We know he wasn't a deity as we can explain what the natives of those islands could not.
Religions are based on argument from ignorance fallacies more often than not.
Look at Breezy's denial of scientific facts. He'll never have the integrity to admit it, but it's an attempt to validate creationism. Except evolution could be entirely falsified and creationism would still remain nothing but a superstitious unevidenced myth. All that energy denying scientific facts and it wouldn't validate any part of his religious beliefs anyway.
I can't look at Breezy any more. He actually thinks he is saying something. The inane nature of his posts are mind boggling.
I can't look at Breezy's posts any more. The inane nature of his posts are just vapid utterances of a wannabe scholar trying to impress the big boys.
John Frum was real. We actually have more evidence supporting John Frum than we do for Jesus. John Frum makes sense, something that a miraculous virgin birth could never do.
So not one theists will even try and offer an answer to this thread OP? Breezy breezed through to aim another petty ad hominem at me, otherwise the reticence is deafening.
Ok new question then, why are theists so dishonestly evasive?
I mean it's not like it achieves anything to avoid answering atheists questions anonymously in an internet forum.
I'm guessing it is part of the double think. Put yourself in their perspective. They've been preached to their whole lives; telling them about fantastic plans from an all powerful deity that controls everything. Yet their daily experience gives a very different picture; when they get an infection they don't pray for it to go away, they run to the doctor for antibiotics. Imagine the amount of self deception that requires. How on Earth could someone in that position ever hope to be honest with you?
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