This thread is about the creation of gods by humans, not the creation of humans by gods.
I have an extreme opinion of the god creation process. I don't look back into history to discover the original source of Yahweh, Vishnu, or Allah. I see gods being created right now in the minds of believers.
Each believer has their own god, composed by their own mind, and in an ongoing process of revision and updating. Similar to the creation of memories. When we bring a memory out of "storage" it is not the same memory as the original. Every time we remember an event, face, smell, etc. we create a new memory. This is why witness testimony in court must be taken with a grain of salt.
The idea of gods are , of course, communicated by culture. If you live in India, you may have your own personal Krishna. Alabama, probably Jesus. Mecca, Allah. But, unlike the concept of a tree or waterfall, there is nothing in nature to validate the god concept. Gods only exist as human ideas.
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Right; that is why god's values always agrees with the values of the person telling you about god. Even though these people don't agree with each other.
Anyone ever heard a theist say something along the lines of: God and I disagree on how homosexuals should be treated?
Of course not; because god's opinions come from the theist's opinions.
Right! Also, no knowledge was ever imparted by a deity that was beyond the understanding of it's creators. Plenty of taboos but no instructions to boil your water before drinking it.
The proxy of "god" is used to disseminate political aims and nothing more. It is an excuse. It has been used to justify slavery genocide discrimination racism xenophobia homophobia fascism chauvinism pedophilia and a multitude of other crimes against humanity.
"God" is just one proxy. Others include morality patriotism nationalism security culturalism and much more.
The god proxy is particularly bad because it is used to wage war on science learning progress and truth.
Well, actually it's very simple. Anthropologically religious evolution is more than documented and proven. Chronologically we find an evolutionary line of complex thinking that travels from the soul recreation that rests in giving a certain magical life to all things, from the stones on the banks of the rivers to the trees, for example, to give some magical or esoteric sense to certain animals and/or things, which we worship to give us their favors, crows, or winter solstice, for example. We also know that religious and cosmogonic complexity, which involves more elaborate religious customs, such as elaborate traditions related to the winter or summer solstice, and which mark, for example, the cultivation or harvesting of crops also demonstrate the complexity of certain societies.
And here we must open a small parenthesis. We know that when natural phenomena mark the slaughter of animals, the slaughter of the pig, or the crops, the winter solstice, that means the emergence of a caste that is responsible for keeping the customs and traditions related to it, a wisdom that confers certain advantages over the rest of the peers of that caste. It's at this moment that the idea of polytheism appears and, later, of monotheism, both are ways of supporting the power of that caste which, in turn, gives support to governors who control armies that tend barns and, in turn, support the power of that caste.
Examples are many, beginning with Sumeria -although we know that there were previous societies-, Egypt, etc.
I agree 100% with SBMontero. Religion is very useful to control "the sheep".
This is only possible because the "sheep" also cooperate. We have a natural tendency to obbey authority, a herd mentality and we love certainty as much as we love making questions... Most of us humans just need a little push in our childhood, when the basis of reality are created, and attend some rituals every now and then, to spend our lives as satisfied believers.
@Angiebot
So true. Time and time throughout history we can see were the state (centralized government) has teamed up with religion (usually state-sponsored and state-enforced) to keep the people compliant, obedient and fearful so the ruling elites in government, the church and in finance could keep the people pliable to their agenda.
In other words, religion was commonly used as a means of intimidation and coercion. Additionally, there were times when religion was the street-level enforcement arm for the ruling elites as the church was the local, common meeting place for the commoners to congregate and socialize.
@Angiebot:
One of the great problems of monotheism, and we are seeing it in this thread, it's its inability to see what is the historical anthropological evolution of its supply as a religion, whether we speak of Christianity or any other monotheistic religion.
Here the important thing isn't that we know, believers, stupid as they're, also know, the problem is the pseudo historical recreation that are made to back up their shits. That's the real problem, a problem that affects many children all over the world and whose indoctrination makes them, no longer believers, hopefully only that, turns them into fanatics who believe they can force the rest of human beings to believe their pseudo-invented shits, for example, that Jesus existed, or that Mohammed peeped cologne.
From my point of view, I'm convinced that the deconstruction of all those lies will be what marks the anthropological and historical work with respect to the monotheistic religions and will, in the end, be what will end with Jihadism and Christian fanaticism.
But it is my point of view, of course.
@Mbrownnec, yes Religion was commonly used as a means of intimidation and coercion. I'd add the most brutal control tool ever invented: Thoughtcrime, aka, sins. Victims becomes their own snitch and castigator.
Guilt for sins... It's cheap and it leaves no visible scars, and one of the more sadistic, because it's voluntarily self-inflicted; and some religions also invented a clever mechanism to alleviate the burden of the sin: pray, for daily unimportant sins ("Please, help me be kinder with my foolish cousin, and forgive me when I stare at my hottie neighbor") and confession, for heavier sins... Mark Zuckerberg's wet dream. Police confessions? Ha. This is the real stuff, those secrets you wouldn't even tell your family or friends...
@SBMontero: They have more money and more people, lobbies, media... so it's a difficult and annoying task. But History has repeatedly proven, that truth (if it's properly backed up with evidence) eventually rises to the surface. It's possible to debunk most of the Abrahamic claims (shared by the 3 great religions), if we do serious research into ancient Mediterranean mythology.
Also, I think that many people would rather follow than think for themselves because thinking makes their heads hurt.
What kind of god's do you all theorize dogs, or elephants, or rhino's worship? Or is this just a human experience? Serious question, I promise- I value your opinions.
They don't worship any god.
Our dog thinks my wife is god because she gives her each day her daily bread.
Animals don't think the way we do; they have no conception of death. If they worshiped anything, it would have to be, food, water, safety and reproduction. Mind you, many humans probably worship the same things.
Maybe that was a bit of a bald statement. I've no evidence that animals have no concept of death, merely that I feel to be unlikely.
Why do you all think humans alone worship, or in your view, create gods?
For the same reason that a dog licks his own balls! Because he can!
Who is this "all" to whom refer?
Because even worship requires a modicum of intelligence. The concept and practice are beyond the mental capabilities of any animal other than Homo Sapiens.
CYBER- I'll ask you, because I appreciate that you obviously value truth over atheist v. theist...will you answer my question please? Why do you think God worship is strictly a human experience? The "dog licking his balls" reference just didn't seem to satisfy my question...
If all creatures worshipped a god (just one god) that would be most troubling to this atheist. When I hear the bird calls in the spring - beautiful by the way - I hear "Fuck me , fuck me!!!!" and "Stay the fuck away or else!!!!". Still, very beautiful!
Sinner, since we don't share common language, it's impossible to tell if individual non-human animals believe in any supernatural deity. Maybe our closest primate cousins also ask themselves "why" to incomprehensible natural events and consider a supernatural entity the answer... Anyways, we show more complex reasoning and language than the rest of animals, so we may be the only animals with religious beliefs.
(edited, 'cause of mistakes)
Sinner, you've asked why I think god-worship is strictly a human experience. I've not said it is. 1. I don't know if other animaks have gods or not. 2. It is not a consistent experience among humans.
Again, not an answer...and we're back to the sexual references!
Sex too icky for you?
Nah, icky is too sexy. If you're into that.
Didn't realize this was the S &M debate forum Chimp...my mistake. Angiebot, thanks for your attempt to answer reasonably.
The birds singing are S+M to you? They sing to attract mates and ward off competitors. Deal with reality man!!!
I've never seen birds use straps and flogs, but I guess you might look more closely than I do.
Talking about bird songs in the spring here! Don't know what all you perverts are referring to?
He said SM, so I felt I should make sure he meant it.
Chimp and Jared: Sometimes it's worth logging in just to read your comments!
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