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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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Hi CyberLN,
Thank you for responding!
You may believe that your existence is not empty or vain, but without God then what purpose does the universe have? Others have said it on this thread. One says its purpose is to die--vain. One says purpose is found in the creature, but outside the creature there is no purpose--vain. Can you explain how your existence is not empty or vain in the grand scheme of things if there is no God or intended purpose behind this universe?
Thank you
-Grace Alone
I don’t think ‘the universe’ has any purpose at all. Call that vain, call it rhubarb, call it chartreuse. Call it whatever you like.
No, I cannot explain how my existence is not empty or vain in the grand scheme of things. First, I don’t give a shit, second, I do not think there is a grand scheme of things.
BTW, notice, GA, that I used the word ‘think’ instead of ‘believe’...it’s an important distinction.
Hi CyberLN,
Thank you for being honest and consistent. I am saddened that you don't care and that you think there is no greater purpose to this universe. What you think and what you believe are usually the same thing, but I would prefer to not get sidetracked into semantics.
Thank you
-Grace Alone
No, belief and thought are frequently at opposite ends.
You prefer not to get sidetracked by semantics? Sir, are you suggesting that the usages you have for words are the same for everyone? If so, that’s quite telling. If not, then your apparent avoidance of specificity about word and phrase meanings makes no sense if the goal is a sensible discussion.
"What you think and what you believe are usually the same thing, "
No actually they're not, thinking is part of a process belief is the outcome. You believe your OP question has merit, I believe it is specious nonsense, we are both thinking about it though. You have just thought about it poorly, because you're staring from a position of bias based a priori beliefs you have a strong emotional desire to validate. I have no such desire and treat all claims the same, my criteria for belief is dependant on a claim being properly evidenced, and objective empirical evidence is manifestly the most likely to properly validate any claim.
Faith is useless for validating claims, and I have no use for it.
@Grace Alone Re: "What you think and what you believe are usually the same thing..."
*annoying game show buzzer noise*.... Wrong. Aw, so sad. Johnny, tell him what he didn't win....
See, I THINK about many, many things quite often. However, that does not mean that I always BELIEVE all of the things about which I think. Thanks for playing, though. Better luck next time.
Your Iron Age mythology won't save anyone either. You will be worm food like the rest of us; except we won't be wasting our lives with your silly fairy tales.
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Currently I want to exist.
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My life is not empty; but in attempt to answer your loaded question: reality is more important to me than fantasy.
Hi Nyarlathotep,
Thanks for responding.
I am sorry that you believe we will all be worm food and nothing more. I believe in a greater purpose, and I am not wasting my life on fairy tales, but historical testimonies passed down through the ages and revealed in creation. I am living my life in light of the truth that I have a purpose and a designer who loves me.
I am glad that you want to exist, but can you justify your existence? Does it have real meaning outside of what you decide for yourself?
I am glad that reality is more important to you than fantasy; I would concur wholeheartedly. That is why I believe in God, because without God there is no such thing as reality or a reason for it.
Thank you
-Grace Alone
There isn't a single contemporary source for Jesus; so I suspect your statement is inaccurate.
You are changing the topic.
Why is your life meaningful if there is no God?
Thank you
-Grace Alone
Simple, it has whatever meaning I want it to have.
Hi Nyarlathotep,
And when you die that meaning is gone. I'm talking about a greater meaning and purpose; the purpose of humanity and life itself, outside of your personal opinions. If the universe itself has no meaning, then everything inside it is vain, including whatever meanings you think to come up with. Am I wrong?
-Grace Alone
Wait: you want to talk about meaning and purpose without personal opinions?!? That is like asking if Coke tastes better than Pepsi, then saying you aren't interested in personal opinions!
When you ask about meaning and purpose, you are already well into the realm of personal opinions. Demanding they be left out at that point is just ludicrous.
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As I pointed out before, that is the fallacy of division.
If you don't want to discuss such things, then maybe you shouldn't have made that silly claim about "historical testimonies". That is how a conversation works, fyi.
I want to discuss what the thread is about.
Thanks
-Grace Alone
You can ask whatever you want, and are not obliged to respond to anyone, but you don't get to dictate to anyone what they can say. So suck it up.
Your thread is predicated on a question that is specious nonsense. The fact you want the comfort blanket or crutch of archaic superstitions doesn't give your life ultimate purpose. A desire to believe something doesn't validate that belief. I don't believe any deities exist as no one has been able to demonstrate any objective evidence for one, the fact you prefer the idea is irrelevant to that. Though for the record I find the idea of vicarious redemption by torturing another human to death deeply repugnant, and the idea of anyone surviving their own death in any meaningful way risible. I find the idea of eternal life appalling.
"Why is your life meaningful if there is no God?"
It doesn't matter, either we can deal with the reality of deities being fictional fantasies that prop up the insecurities of believers like yourself, or we can pretend deities are real when they're not, as you're doing in order to indulge the egotistical delusion that your life has ultimate purpose.
@Grace Alone: in light of the truth that I have a purpose and a designer who loves me.
So there's something that you have to do that is essential to the future of life, the universe, everything, which you believe were created by a invisible, eternal something who cares deeply about you personally?
Pure narcissism.
Pure unjustified narcissism at that. The real hilarity is when he implies atheists or atheism are arrogant though.
@ Grace Alone, please prove that the universe has a "purpose".
The correct answer is that this universe's purpose is to die.
p.s. you are deserving of contempt and criticism. You are arrogant, condescending, and are attempting to put words in people's mouths. If you can provide a respectful and constructive dialogue, I have no problem, but if you are just here to preach, save it for Sunday and go bother someone in your congregation.
Hi David Killens,
Thank you for responding!
How do you know that its purpose is to die? If that is the case, then why do you work against that?
Also, I believe there ought to be no contempt for anyone on this site, but I will criticize your claims against me. I think my posts have been more than respectful and constructive. On the contrary, there are many posts against me that are not constructive to the point of my original post. I have been called a liar, and I have had people try to talk about things that are off topic.
Thank you
-Grace Alone
@GA
"How do you know that its purpose is to die? If that is the case, then why do you work against that?"
I criticized you for attempting to put words in people's mouths. And this statement just reinforces your deficiency in truth and conduct. I NEVER stated that I am working against the death of the universe. Show me where I said that, you arrogant prick.
The universe (like everything) is in a constant state of evolution, and eventually it will run out of stuff to burn, and suffer a long heat death. One day many billions of years from now the last star will go dark. That is it's fate, that is what is happening.
Hey David Killens,
First of all, name calling will get us nowhere. It is true, you never said you are working against the death of the universe, but you said the purpose of the universe is to die... Yet here you are, living. That's counterproductive to that purpose, no? That's why I said you were working against it. I didn't say that you said that, but I took your beliefs to their logical conclusion. That makes me arrogant, I suppose.
Thanks
-Grace Alone
Grace Alone, you need a reality check and a bucket of honesty. You are laying a lot of assumptions on atheism, and that is being dishonest. Especially for a previous atheist.
"you never said you are working against the death of the universe, but you said the purpose of the universe is to die... Yet here you are, living."
Of course I am living, and I am not going to commit suicide just because billions of years from now the universe will suffer a heat death. I am not being counterproductive, I am living my life with a little bit of cosmic knowledge about the fate of the universe. I cannot alter or control the fate of the universe, all I can do is fill my life with life. By the same logic I can ask why you are still alive, knowing you believe you will eventually wind up in a heaven. By your logic aren't you being counterproductive?
How about a little reset to re-establish communications and you provide your definition of "purpose"?
"you said the purpose of the universe is to die... Yet here you are, living. That's counterproductive to that purpose, no? "
No, quite obviously human life firstly isnlt a conscious choice we make for ourselves, and secondly our life won't change the outcome anyway.
"I took your beliefs to their logical conclusion. "
No you didn't, you misunderstood the very simple core premise, and inferred irrational and inconsistent nonsequiturs from it. The fact the universe is heading for a slow cold death is based on overwhelming objective empirical evidence, try dealing with that rather than making absurd and incorrect assumptions about what it means.
"That makes me arrogant, I suppose."
Oh I think the arrogance in your apologetics is pretty typical of the theists who breeze through here if that helps, like you they offer little but sententious sermons to poor heathens they want to convert. The assumption atheists have not thought about these issues and properly scrutinised them, as least as much as you have, is pretty arrogant.
OP: @"there are many posts against me that are not constructive to the point of my original post."
You made no point in your original post. What exactly is it you imagine you are saying. WRITING 101. "It is the writer's responsibility to write clearly and not the reader's responsibility to interpret bullshit!"
"You are arrogant, condescending, and are attempting to put words in people's mouths."
You have to love the affectation of his faux concern for us though, leave it to a theist.
Fallacy of division
It is fallacious, but isn't strictly untrue if by purpose he means an ultimate purpose inherently built into it for human life. What theists miss here every single time is that firstly a dystopian existence devoid of purpose is not less valid than nirvana just because humans prefer one over the other. Secondly humans have evolved consciousness, and have the ability to instil purpose in our lives in everything we choose to do, day by day and hour by hour, and of course in the people we love and care about and who if we're lucky love and care about us.
If their fictional superstition was true that's all a delusion, and my choices have no relevance unless I can guess right and mesh them with arbitrary desires of an absentee deity who won't show me unequivocally it even exists.
I'm at a loss as to why they think their belief is more valid because they find it more desirable, but even more at a loss as to why they find it more desirable to be the puppet pets of an all powerful megalomaniacal deity.
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