Hi there, this is a question coming from an atheist. Now, I know this sounds like "oh, that's just sounds like an agnostic." but, I'm asking people who go to church regularly, and worship their deities, and take part in your culture: Have you ever had doubts about what you are doing, and who you are worshiping?
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When I was a catholic, I'm a very faithful one. I didn't doubt and just rationalize all the bad things that happened to me, that it was just the plan of god for his greater purpose until came a time when I was led to websites, books and people that explains about catholism and all its craps. I was convinced that I just wasted my time to a religion that I don't really know. Now I feel more free from the tradition that embedded on me. I still believe in god but not in the catholic's god. I'm on my way of understanding more about life.
Thank you for the wonderful response so soon.
Nicktator:
From personal experience it seems to me that almost everyone questions their beliefs at some point in their life, especially if they are going through harsh times that they don'd feel they deserve to go through. This is the moment when faith is tested. I do not follow any religion at this point.
I have never heard it from that view, but I have heard people in fact turn to religion from result of very hard and harsh life experiences, and I wonder if that after a while when or if they do get over the experience, they start to seriously doubt the religion they turned to?
I'm wondering also if atheists are at some point had doubts with their belief regarding the non-existence of god. Did you questioned yourself as atheist if your belief is real and it can lead you into a better person?
yes, in fact I have questioned it. I do know for a fact that Jesus DID exist, but no one knows for sure that he did supernaturally. What makes me wonder the most is the gospels. They speak the truth of what happened, such as Jesus did not in fact carry the cross, he was so weak and battered that he could not take a step with it on his back. If you take a look at the gospels and see for yourself what they have to say, I'm sure you'll find it interesting. As for being a better person, yes indeed it has. I felt "restrained" as a religious follower, looking at what is wrong or right. I still do, but they are no where near as strict as religion, so I have become more of a carefree, relaxed being as a result of Atheism.
" I do know for a fact that Jesus DID exist, "
Could you demonstrate any objective evidence beyond archaic anecdotal claims for Jesus's existence? I'm not sure even the most informed scholars who view his existence as more probable than not could candidly claim his existence as a fact."
"but no one knows for sure that he did supernaturally."
I am as sure that he did nothing supernatural as I am that the legends of Hercules are untrue. Not only is there no evidence to support the supernatural claims, no one has *ever demonstrated any objective evidence for anything supernatural. I never claim absolute certainty as this is an epistemological misnomer, but the level of confidence these claims have no validity is about high as they can get, and will remain so as long as no objective evidence commensurate to the claims can be demonstrated.
"What makes me wonder the most is the gospels. They speak the truth of what happened,"
Not even close, and no objective scholar thinks this. The authorship isn't even known, and the names attached to most of the gospel myths are made up, it even states this inside the cover of all bibles.
"such as Jesus did not in fact carry the cross, he was so weak and battered that he could not take a step with it on his back. "
You're getting way ahead of yourself, show objective evidence for Jesus as an historical person, then for a crucifixion, making clams about what happened during it is simply assumption.
" If you take a look at the gospels and see for yourself what they have to say, I'm sure you'll find it interesting."
Not really, most of it is quite hard to read and often contradicts other parts of the bible, some of it is immoral, but that aside no text can validate itself, even if it is interesting.
" As for being a better person, yes indeed it has. I felt "restrained" as a religious follower, looking at what is wrong or right."
Well I'm not sure being restrained is a good marker for what is immoral.
"I have become more of a carefree, relaxed being as a result of Atheism."
Then I'm happy for you, and at least now you can take credit for your good morals.
I had often wondered this, even when I took the Gospels on the face value that a typical church 'lecture' asks you to do.
Then I heard about the Synoptic problem.
From my understanding of it this is the problem:
Mark, Matthew and Luke have many similarities, John is quite different.
Matthew and Luke agree on things only when they are in Mark. Their writings in the original Greek are in the same order when they are in Mark. They often use the same exact words in the same exact order - so long as they are in Mark. Parables in Matthew and Luke are in the same order - so long as they are in Mark.
If they are not in Mark and Matthew and Luke discuss them then they get the order wrong, or details wrong.
The way to explain this is that Mark wrote his Gospel first. This was transmitted about, copied by scribes, transmitted etc etc. Some time later in separate places there are a couple of other guys called Matthew and Luke. They both have copies of Mark in front of them, and they also have another document that has stories of Jesus in it. From these two documents they write their own gospels.
John comes sometime later, having wanting to put his own spin on it for his own audience and having his own motivations and we writes about events that have been dated about 90 years later, so he might have been 'quite a bit' later.
I.e. It looks like this is the history: Mark likes some stories he hears and believes them. He writes them down. Perhaps a decade or two later his stories have circulated pretty well and another couple of influential writers have become members of the group and have a copy of Mark, which by now is getting a bit old and doesn't include plenty of other material that is getting passed around, most importantly some other stories that are popular. The two chaps, Matthew and Luke, both write their own updated versions of Mark, but include the other stories too. Then, decades after that when the group has grown again and is facing different challenges a chap called John writes his own version aimed at the people of his time and the problems they are facing using the older works of Mark, Luke and Matthew.
I.e. that image of them all being friends, or all being at the same time and being witnesses to events is a falsehood.
In fact, its being based on one chap, Mark's, book. The others have access to it, and are sitting down with a copy of it, and adding to it at a later date based on other stories they have heard and what they feel is relevant to the followers they want to impact.
This is called the two-source solution/hypothesis to the Synoptic Problem, with the Synoptic Problem being very real and requiring some sort of answer, and the two source solution being a way to answer it. I.e. even if someone wants to dismiss the two source solution for some reason they cannot wish away the Synoptic Problem itself, which still requires some sort of answer.
Note: This is from memory from when it was discussed on the Reasonable Doubts podcast years ago later on in their run in, if I remember, a two-part episode entitled something to do with 'Witnesses'. If I've got some bits wrong (Matthew and Luke might have been written 30 years after Mark, I can't remember), well, its because it was years ago that I listened to the podcast, but it stuck with me as it was pretty interesting. The above is my best, and honest, recollection.
@UK Geo
And the Understatement of the Week Award goes to UK Geo for " John is quite different." :-)
I can't read John without humming this under my breath:
https://youtu.be/e9vrfEoc8_g
I'm very political ;)
Everyone that uses their mind to think and debate things will most likely have doubts about anything and everything that they can't find logical explanations for.
My doubt started when I noticed how much I forced myself to pray to god and acknowledge him throughout my day. After being voluntarily religious over a couple years I began to notice how I didn't naturally get out of bed and praise god and that I did not think about him ever. As a result I felt guilty and that I was not living true to the lord which really made me question why am I believing in something that really has no impact on my life? And for that matter believing in something that actually makes me feel guilty? That was when I changed.
There's not a lot of responses from theists, but I guess that's to be expected :)
Myself, I always had doubt that pretty much spilled over into disbelief once I was old enough to think for myself. I've watched my mother struggle with doubt in her beliefs for a while, and it looks hard. I don't know what she fears losing by just letting go. I've since noticed that she has a lot of responsibility issues in her life generally, so maybe that's it. When you're an atheist, you're on your own. There's no one to forgive you, and no one to blame, outside of yourself. Some people get scared of that.
"Have you ever had doubts about what you are doing, and who you are worshiping?"
if they did? there wont be no religious people no more..
"rational argument doesn't work with religious people. otherwise there wont be any religious people."
Why are you all talking to zombies?
@Old Man
Because ignoring them doesn't work. You've seen Shaun of the Dead.
its the talk of the town.....zombies stories everywhere....
if zombie exist, i'll keep one my self, for safe keeping, and they are more aggressive than dogs..
@Niktator: "Doubts about your religion?"
No. Ain't got none. Never had any.
Now to go back and read the other responses.
rmfr
Very good question. It is the first time I have seen here on these forums.
Nope! Never! Ain't never gonna happen! I have always known that there never has been a god, there is no god, and never shall be a god. None.
For me, the very first time I heard anything about Christianity, my very first thought was, "Can they actually be that stupid?" (or similar).
I grew up skeptical thanks to Mr. Spock. Yes, the Mr. Spock from Star Trek® fame. I spent almost a year watching the first season of Star Trek: The Original Series before being forced to go to church.
Even after the death of my family, I never questioned the fact that anything remotely like an imaginative, degenerate, and as Richard Dawkins put it in The God Delusion, "jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving, control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully" who is supposed to be a supernatural super-being with ultimate-power, ultimate-knowledge, and ultimate-goodness. Yeah right. And paraphrased from Richard Dawkins, the most horrifying and terrifying monster to ever haunt humanity in all history.
Thus:
Nope! Never! Ain't never gonna happen! I have always known that there never has been a god, there is no god, and there never shall be a god. Never, ever, forever NONE.
rmfr
@ Arakish
You did see that Rose posted her comment back in 2013? She may have had twins, read Dawkins and become an atheist by now......someone is gleefully resurrecting the dead in these antique threads...
@Old Man Re: "someone is gleefully resurrecting the dead in these antique threads..."
*talking out of side of mouth in hushed tone*....Pssst.... I don't want to name any names, but, uh, I have it on good authority that a certain somebody we all know an love has gotten a "God Complex" recently and is going around bringing old threads back from the dead.....*inconspicuously pointing thumb over shoulder*......*>>>>>>>>*.....*Q standing over old thread chanting with arms raised over head*....
@ TM
*shouting* Oh God Now *abruptly drops voice and whispers* Is it a mid life crisis? Is he wanting t relive his past triumphs? My missus does that all the time...
Yeah. Didn't pay any attention to the date. My vision makes it very difficult to read very small fonts.
Yes, I know about the Ctrl-+ keystroke. Just never use it.
rmfr
when i was a child i use to ask that if god created everything then who created god. i was told that i should not ask such questions as they can lead me away from Islam. i grew up learning Islam and believing everything. when i attended teacher training i started having doubts. in short i use to have doubts but my faith was way too strong so i use to ignore. doubts never let me out of Islam. something else did. in short, its a long story. i am new here and i feel very nervous. i want to answer your question in details but i feel unable to type fast and to think straight because i am do excited i finally made it to this republic
Welcome, also there is no need at all to be nervous. Taking your time over your posts is a very good habit.
@Ex-Muslim
Welcome, young lady! It's so nice to have another lady around. :-)
Well Come.
If necessary, especially with answering in detail, use a text editor like I do. Then you can take your time, proof and edit, then do a simple copy and paste into the Reply box.
Definitely take your time.
rmfr
I started a magical underwater Mermaid cult and I doubt that it will ever become popular.
@Cog
I'm in! I'll just have to go get my SCUBA certification updated.
LOL
Another One: When I first read your post, I swore it said, "I started a magical underwear ..."
I need new glasses. Damn.
rmfr