Do you guys have a favorite argument against religion in general or a particular religion? One that almost always makes a religious person go silent perhaps. What is it? It's on the debate forum for if a religious person wants to try and answer any of these. My new favorite is
Numbers 14: "12 I will strike them down with a plague and destroy them, but I will make you into a nation greater and stronger than they.”
13 Moses said to the Lord, “Then the Egyptians will hear about it! By your power you brought these people up from among them."
Then 14:20 says ""The Lord replied, “I have forgiven them, as you asked."
That's right. Moses changed Gods' mind to not kill some people. Interesting right?
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My last mic drop moment was something like: If you are such a devoted and proper (insert religious affiliation here)? Why are you so afraid of death?
Ok, so they can say suicide is a sin, but during an accident, robbery, ect. Whatever.. the fear of death is unmistakable. Why? Afraid of the eternal paradise? Doesn't sound like such a fervent belief after all.
Eh I usually just ask the norm and within a few minutes they will just go in a circle from It's God's will->God is all powerful->God knows everything-> we have free will->accept Jesus and all is forgiven->God is all good->God can do whatever and we can't question it-> Back to it's God's will he knows best and we humans can't understand his awesomeness.
-How can a just and benevolent God punish Adam and Eve for doing something when they themselves had no understanding of what was right or wrong at the time when they disobeyed God.
-If they believe in a hell I like to ask if it'd be possible for them to truly enjoy happiness in heaven knowing that their loved ones who are non-believers or of different religious view will be suffering for eternity.
-If God is omniscient how come he gets pissy and goes on a murder spree when people do stuff he didn't want them to do? Knowing everything that will happen before you create it and then getting mad about it is psychotic.
-Does God experience everything that we humans experience? Things such as lust or any desire that humans possess? Does he know what it's like to sex a guy or do drugs? If no then he is not all knowing and unfit to judge humans for their desires and actions.
Simple questions really but lol it's funny when I get creative with my questions.
When they go about how the new testament is so good, i usually show them slavery and misogyny verses but the one that makes them stumble is jesus cursing the Fig tree.
They usually haven't yet found a detour or a metaphor for it. The absurdity of this actually makes it effective.
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Chab// Jesus cursing the fig tree.
lmao fighting with a tree, so hateful. The tree shed a tear. :(
just like a kid....hahahah.....
lame jesus...really lame..selfish bastard
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen Roberts
Why does god "randomly" answer prayers for cancer, for money request, success in a date, or to do well in a test, but never answer prayer request to regrow limbs?
Stu. K.,
The God character was simply the series of men who ruled the various Middle Eastern empires in ancient times where the Israelites lived. That's why the God character has different personalities throughout the Old Testament. Some of them were more nuttier than the other ones but they were all lunatics.
It is INCREDIBLY frustrating that you Christians have different opinions on topics that should be known for sure in your religion. That's rather sad that you guys can't agree amongst yourselves on what parts the almighty God himself actually said and what parts are human written actually :/
@Stu.K. .......
Personally I usually take a line of attack against the Bible ....... it ,being a written document, cannot change...thus the theist cannot try their standard tactic of the "shuffle"..... trying to move the thrust of the argument......
Plus ,as the Bible is a construct it is riddled with falsehoods ,inaccuracies and lies...all easily found with a little research.... and being a bit of a research geek myself...its an approach that is right up my street....
I usually point out that we today find Greek mythology to be ridiculous and fictional. At one point, people believed it to be true. It contains virgin births, resurrections, walking on water, turning water into wine, setting fire to water, flying, ascensions into the heavens, the slaying of monsters, and the ordaining of kings by gods. I then point out that the bible contains all of these concepts, if slightly different. I've converted two people using this method.
Jared,
How do you convert a religious person to being an Atheist? I'm sure nobody at AR was ever converted.
Not convert, necessarily, but awaken. Poor choice of words. Two of my close friends that were once very strong Methodists are now both atheists. One is an agnostic atheist, and the other is undecided between agnostic and gnostic.
Okay, now I understand what you meant.
I watched an episode of "The Atheist Experience" show a while back - Matt Dillahunty asked the Christian caller something to the effect of - "Do you think faith is a reliable path to truth?" and then he proceeded to demolish every response the caller stuttered out. I thought that question was a fantastic dialogue starter and ender.
One of my favourites...
https://youtu.be/XcB_g_ElIdQ
enjoy.....
@Stu. K.: I have many, but the one I enjoy most is "god doesn't exist and I can prove it", when you say "I can prove it" believers react in various ways, some foolish laughs, others open their eyes and mouth very much and stay... like halfway, It's as if that were anything that didn't fit in their heads. And their faces when you show them that the concept of god isn't necessary in the explanation of the universe, Its origin, the origin of the solar system, the origin of life... that, my friend, is priceless. I love it.
I know very well why San Harris sits down to argue with preachers, he enjoys it.
P.S.
About turning into an atheist to someone who is a believer, I don't think it's about converting, I think it's about creating the doubt. When you make someone who is sure that a fantasy is certain dude about it you also get he/she investigate, to look for, to be seized, to deprogram themselves.
Just briefly summarize the stories of Genesis and the New Testament, including Adam and Eve, the apple, the flood/Ark, the virgin birth, etc., and ask them to confirm if that's what they really believe. When you hear it as a brief synopsis, it all sounds like a script rejected by Monty Python for being too weird and crazy.
Yay talking snakes/serpents!
I knew the first book of Harry Potter plagiarized it from somewhere!! I wonder why nobody tried to sue JK Rowling for stealing that idea, she certainly has the funds to be open for a giant monetary lawsuit.
Oh...wait, they, (the bible authors,) probably do not want to draw attention to our ridiculous their little bedtime story is.
Plus that would make Adam and Eve a descendant of Voldemort? I am pretty sure more people have read the Harry Potter series cover to cover then the various versions of the bible these days, so by law of popularity, these "christians" like to lean on, they will have to submit to the idea their less popular book should superseded by the popular harry potter books collective teachings.
I don't debate. It's beneath the dignity of a logical being and certainly of a self-respecting one. If a person so chooses to strike up a knightly pose for a belief system I will give him audience and accept him as the actor he needs to be at that moment. Charity comes in many forms.
Usually such a diatribe goes poorly because it's all faith-based. Even the staunchest supporter swallows hard at the simplest return volleys of questions begging for proofs that cannot be produced. That's when things can get embarrassingly difficult, mumbling and pathetically hurtful for the best champions of faith. I cannot make myself an observer of such unprepared prophet-mongering. It's so easily steered towards delusion-speak that the sticks and stones throwing of defenses that used to signal a victory are no longer worth the time spent achieving it.
I enjoy a good debate with a faithful individual, but only if they precipitate such a debate. I won't go looking to make verbal trouble with someone whose frontal lobe is already damaged enough to allow them to follow such nonsense. I will join a debate posed to me, however, because it is important to display to an interlocutor exactly why I disagree with them. I won't allow them the assumption of me fleeing debate for lack of intellectual substance. I must agree, though, that the glory of a hard-won debate hardly seems worth the effort when, more often than not, the opponent is a person who has forsaken reason altogether. In my experience, the only arguments that work on an emotional mind are emotional arguments, and I don't have the time or the patience for that.
I don't have a favorite argument (I am supposing you are asking my counter to religious proselytizing). I just respond to whatever I am dealt to deal with. I use logic and facts. Most times my opponent won't accept logic so there is no reason to go further. It's like this forum. Many Xtians come here thinking that they will convert us even though in the heart of hearts they know they won't. It isn't that we are unreasonable. It's the fact that they have nothing to reason with. They are completely and utterly unreasonable. Many here are accommodating to these people, and I ask WHY? You know and I know, that nothing absolutely nothing will change. We have heard it all before and will hear it again. Nothing new.
Have you ever wondered why almost every goofball that comes here is between the ages of 15 to 26? It is because that is the group that are in the "Young Adult Youth Group" at their churches. They have rehearsed and scripted plans for their arguments complete with readied responses to every rebuttal. They spend hours finding scripture for every possible rebuttal. When that fails and it always does, they resort to shit like "The devil has blinded you." So there is no reason to argue or debate with them. They are programmed robots regurgitating the bullshit they have been fed.
I find that almost all arguments I see by atheists are just advancing one opinion against their opinion. This will never win. If we advance scientific facts that only require "understanding" and not opinion the argument is a guaranteed winner. If you understand the science then you are lying to yourself and if you do not you are deliberately ignorant.
[
self promotion removed by moderator].@Malcom well that made no sense whatsoever.
No one needs a "Religious Argument." That which can be asserted without evidence, can be rejected without evidence. It is up to the religious to prove their position. It is not up to anyone else to disprove their position. We have 10.000 years of failed gods in history and thousands upon thousands more of failed prehistory gods. Please explain how your god is special.
I don't have a go to argument, I don't initiate the conversations or proselytise atheism, I just counter whatever arguments come up. So far, the only thing I've found to say that reduces a believer to silence is "Yep. Right. Got it- sounds lovely- I just don't believe it, and I can't choose what I do and don't believe anymore than you can."
The most common argument I have to refute is that I think the believer I'm talking to - usually someone close to me - is stupid. Every time it comes up, I want to slap Richard Dawkins for his brights thing. Having believers on the defensive on a personal level right from the get go like that isn't helpful. It never ceases to amaze me how many believers know nothing else about atheists, but they know about the brights thing.
OT, the stripe of believer I find really offensive - red rag to a bull level- is the stripe that says things like " You haven't been given the right information about the correct concept of god." like the twerp is personally the Way, the Truth and the Light. Arrogant twits. I find it every bit as offensive to all the other believers as it is to atheists.
I just keep asking questions which inevitably uncover inconsistencies, but it is important to note that the problem is how superstitions work. Religionists don't see themselves as relinquishing superstitions (our perspective), they are "defending their beliefs".
It is important to keep picking away at these inconsistencies if these superstitions are to be overcome. Otherwise problems like faith schools, Creationism, religious courts, religious sectarianism, child genital mutilation, ritual slaughter of animals and attacks on LGBTQ rights, will persist, quite apart from the sort of rioting and hostility we see between religious tribes and the prejudice and even criminalisation of non-believers.
Humans create fictional deities and this is an unequivocal fact, and no one can demonstrate any objective evidence for a deity.
That's as much of an argument as I need against the bare unevidenced belief that a deity is real. I assess other claims as they are presented.
i think the argument that i love the most was tracie harris of the atheist experience.
the caller just doesn't know what to say and just swayed the argument with something that is nonsense
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I remember that, the caller said do you think the little girl who was raped was innocent Tracy?
Matt Dillahunty cut him off and said "goodbye you piece of shit"....a sentiment I fully shared at the time.
Tracy Harris's argument was one of those brilliantly pithy yet profound arguments showing how irrational a belief in a benevolent omnipotent omniscient diety is in a world where unimaginable suffering is ubiquitous.
right on shelly....one of the best...
i really salute this guys from the atheist experience...especially Matt Dillahunty
i always watch his videos where he goes beast mode towards the irrational caller...superb
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