Did you ever stop to think that if there is a God and if he created you, then He already know what's in your heart? He knows that He "put eternity in the hearts of men" and that those who say there is no God are in deep denial, even tribes that live far away from any known civilization worship something, they may not have a Bible, but they see nature and acknowledge is for what it is, a creation with design and seasons made by a higher being. My question is what pain is so deep in your heart, what emotional trauma has so damaged your spirit, what lies has the enemy been feeding you for so long, that you would deny the existence of the One who loved you so much that He would create you in His own image?
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"Did you ever think maybe God doesn't believe in Atheists?"
Which god?
The one true God. The biblical God, the creator of all things. There is only one God.
What do you want to happen by posting here? Is your purpose to debate? Preach? Convert? Assuage your own doubt? Prove something?
"One who loved you so much that He would create you in His own image?"
Which God? The one that caused the Death of my Uncle?
The One that was never there when I needed him (which never happened)?
I'd rather think about the Future than waste my Time praying to something that isn't there.
This is a Atheist Website, don't you dare turn this to a Preaching site for your theist bullshit.
If god made us in his own image, he must be a pretty screwed up dude.
@ tree in the water. -
1. Did you ever consider that there exist civilisations and traditions that were both removed and part of society that were atheistic that exist till today.
2. If your omniscient god in his omnipotence hardened my heart against him, shouldn't you be questioning his logic over our choice (your god has done that before. he hardened the pharaoh's heart and then sent plagues on his people and killed his children. Kind of a dick move don't you think)
3. It is true there lurks a pain deep within me which is the result of a hurt but not by the fiction of your god but by the bigotry and intolerance of theists such as yourself.
If your god is so powerful then let him fight his own battles. Do not interfere.
If he is all knowing then he knew how I was to be and so since I do not believe in him, that is his decision and thus right and you are no one to question the one loving god that made me in his image. (Did he also make you in his image? you specified that he made us in his image, you didn't specify for yourself.)
And when you compare tribes living far away to our modern civilisation don't you feel that they might be at a disadvantage knowledge wise. The probably don't even know the earth is not flat.
Please consider our point of view before you pass judgement over us. We do not believe in any gods even the one true loving god of the bible.
We are not in pain or hurt or even against him or it or whatever.
Just realise we don't want to ruin our lives, I mean run our lives living by archaic obsolete codes over modern humanistic ones.
Tree in the water, I would like to respectfully ask you to leave this website. This website is a safe place for atheists who are in or out of the closet. Your being here only raises hostility between you and other theists and atheists. My other problem is you assume our lack of belief in a god is due to some trauma we faced in the past, while in reality that is not the case. For you to assume so is to insult everyone on this website which raises hostility. Contrary to popular belief, our faith or lack thereof is not a choice. I didn't choose to be an atheist, I simply am, and I will not apologize for the way I feel about any God. So again, please, just leave and let us be.
This is a debate forum. Both theists and atheists are completely welcome in the debate forum as long as neither breaks the forum rules. The Atheist Hub is exclusively for those identifying as atheist.
Ah, I see. Thank you for clearing that up. I seemed to have forgotten that I was indeed in the debate section. I'm also kinda new to website. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
" I would like to respectfully ask you to leave this website. This website is a safe place for atheists who are in or out of the closet."
I would respectively ask you to take your "safe space" and go somewhere else...like tumbler. What is the point of debate if there is only unanimous acceptance? That is not debate, it is self-congratulatory circle jerking. Theists SHOULD be welcomed to disagree, otherwise we are just as closed minded and willfully ignorant as any believer. So kindly get over yourself, if you cannot defend your position when challenged then you have no reason to hold that position in the first place.
My sincerest apologies. I should've thought more about my position and theirs before commenting. I'll try to be more careful in the future.
No worries, you have offered an apology and that is all anyone can ask of you. Though if you have any issues with your own position, all it takes is a willfulness to critically examine why t is you hold that position in the first place. You have demonstrated that you are capable of seeing the error in your approach and that is the most important first step anyone can take. So I want to thank you, and acknowledge the fact that you are willing to be open-minded.
@ Tree in water
Your question is problematic, as it assumes that belief is the same as knowledge. To take your question as is, I would say that God is incapable of belief/non-belief, as an all knowing figure, belief would never be required. Belief is only necessary when there is a lack of knowledge, otherwise faith would not be so highly valued within religion. For example, you do not KNOW Jesus is the son of god (if you are a JW then this point is meaningless) you BELIEVE Jesus is the son of God, why do you believe and not know? Because it is impossible to know one way or they other, so faith is the necessary bridge to get across this gap.
@ tree in the water
Why would you assume pain caused anyone to become an atheist? Is it because you are prone to ridiculous assumptions? Like assuming that there is a god, with no proof whatsoever?
Your post is not only ignorant, it is insulting. One wonders what other false assumptions you have made.
Some atheist might have emotional trauma, but it isn't because or due to their disbelief in your myth. Atheist are people. Granted they are usually of higher quality, education, and IQ than most, but by and large, they are just like everyone else.
So for you to come to this website and just accuse people of having an emotional trauma for no other reason than they don't believe in YOUR myth is utterly stupid.
Prove that there is a god. You do that and I will take you seriously. Otherwise leave.
Greetings "tree in the water" ....
"The one true God. The biblical God, the creator of all things. There is only one God."
"The one true God............ "So...that's Allah ,Zeus ,Odin ,Zoroaster ,Apollo , Bran ,Thor .....or .......who??
All believers claim that theirs is the one true god..... they are all wrong.
"The biblical God,"......"So ...that's Baal ,Molloch ,Tammuz ,Ashera .......or ....who ??
These are all gods mentioned in your bible ...... which of these is your true god ?
"There is only one God." ......and yet you seem reluctant to use its name .....I wonder why ?
You know...... I don't think its us that is in denial....
Deny the existence of a god that doesn't interact with me at all? What's the difference between me denying what isn't there and you searching for it?
@tree in the water
First you say "even tribes that live far away from any known civilization worship something". Then you say "The one true God. The biblical God, the creator of all things. There is only one God".
So how do you account for the enormous variety of gods worshipped in different eras in different parts of the world? People have worshipped cows, feathered serpents, volcanoes, the sun, the moon.... Where the god is anthropomorphic, it is always created in the image of the people that invented it. Zeus was a Greek king with a jealous queen and fractious children. Odin was a old Norse-Germanic warrior chief with a battle scar (one eye missing). Jehovah was the stern patriarch of nomadic herders, with some attributes plagiarized from the theologies of more sophisticated contemporary civilizations, such as Egypt and Babylon.
If there really was only one god, why is there all this variety? Was god unable to manifest itself to South Americans, Japanese, Polynesians, etc., until missionaries came on the scene?
tree in the water: "My question is what pain is so deep in your heart, what emotional trauma has so damaged your spirit, what lies has the enemy been feeding you for so long, that you would deny the existence of the One who loved you so much that He would create you in His own image?"
Straight out the "How to talk to Atheists Handbook! How cliche.
How callous of you also to evoke such personal matters and act like a sympathetic ear and not stick around. It is almost like you were making a statement rather than asking questions. Am I safe to assume then that your are claiming an atheist must be emotionally disturbed to not see the world the way you do?
If he exists, my denial is based on the application of logic, reason, and empiricism. If he doesn't exist, what is your denial of his non-existence based upon? The simple fact that tribes worship something only shows mankind's tendency to create explanations for that which it doesn't understand. Why don't these tribes have consistent beliefs? Why do their beliefs differ? Why don't their beliefs tend to coincide with you Christian beliefs? Why do all their beliefs contradict known science and facts?
Why do you assume my denial of the existence of your god is the result of some pain or trauma? Why do you assume your religion has it right, and not any of the other religions out there?
I find it both amusing and annoying that the woman in the OP uses an uneducated tribe as an example of how 'it must mean God's real'.
It is very similar to me saying 'even a 4year old thinks that boogers taste good. So obviously boogers were meant to be eaten'.
Cmon lady.... U can do better than that.
How disappointing, yet predictable...the OP did a cut and run.
tree in the water,
Did you come here to preach? Isn't this a debate forum where ideas are advanced by evidence and reason? Are you a troll?
Did I ever think that maybe the Easter Bunny doesn't believe in atheists! Can't say that I have. (I rephrased it that way because that's how much credibility I assign to the God hypothesis.)
One of the biggest threats to a true believer (such as yourself) is a happy, well adjusted, atheist who arrived at his atheism by way of much study and reflection. In the world of true believers such a person can't possibly exist. Therefore, that atheist must be in deep denial, the product of emotional trauma. Hence your question: "...what pain is so deep in your heart, what emotional trauma has so damaged your spirit, what lies has the enemy been feeding you for so long, that you would deny the existence of the One who loved you so much that He would create you in His own image?"
You really do have to believe that, don't you? If you ever stopped believing it you might start wondering why atheists are so well adjusted on the whole. You might find yourself inquiring as to their REAL reasons for rejecting the God hypothesis. That might lead to facts and reasoning that would undermine your faith. You might turn into an atheist!
We simply discovered the truth. Don't waste our time by playing armchair psychiatrist, you who know nothing about our lives, in an effort to prop up your own faith and stem your own doubts. If you wish to argue that there is a good case for God by all means do so. But be prepared to employ evidence and reason, and don't be surprised if we have heard your arguments a hundred times already. If you are like many others, you are a babe in the woods in these matters.
If you wish to quote verses from the Bible, you will need to first demonstrate that it is not an ancient, evolved patchwork filled with contradictions, historical errors, moral errors, scientific absurdities, and failed prophecy, which we perceive it to be.