Nobody owns December 25th! Cheeto Von Tweeto can take a leap!
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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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The concept behind December 25 as a gift-giving holiday is based upon the 4th Commandment =
Exodus 34:20 (TLB) = "20 The firstborn colt of a donkey may be redeemed by giving a lamb in its place. If you decide not to redeem it, then its neck must be broken. But your sons must all be redeemed. And no one shall appear before me without a gift."
The practical example in the Bible is when the wise men brought gifts to baby Yeshua, thereby acknowledging him as a deity.
If you're not in the Christmas mood you can always quote Colossians 2:16 (NOG) = "Therefore, let no one judge you because of what you eat or drink or about the observance of annual holy days, New Moon Festivals, or weekly worship days."
Even Yahweh got tired of them.
Isaiah 1:13-14 (CEV) = "13 Your sacrifices are worthless, and incense is disgusting.
I can’t stand the evil you do on your New Moon Festivals or on your Sabbaths and other times of worship.
14 I hate your New Moon Festivals and all others as well.
They are a heavy burden I am tired of carrying."
1. Which forth commandment?
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy" under the Philonic division used by Hellenistic Jews, Greek Orthodox and Protestants except Lutherans, or the Talmudic division of the third-century Jewish Talmud.
"Honour thy father and thy mother" under the Augustinian division used by Roman Catholics and Lutherans.
2. When are donkey's born in the middle of winter. Obviously you have never lived in a rural area.
Cognostic,
If people want to claim to be Christians the first thing the should do is to learn what the damn Ten Commandments are. It's the most linear story in the entire Bible. All you have to do is start reading from Exodus chapter 19 through Exodus chapter 34 and and make notes of what you have read. The BS laws in Exodus chapter 20 are verbal; they were never written on stone tablets and called the Ten Commandments. You have to get to Exodus chapter 32:18 before stone tablets written by the finger of God are mention. Moses was up and down the mountain like a goat before that.
If you don't want to read the story then watch some videos that will explain it =
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkCJ8rb8Grw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36g3auOm9HA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u3z69YpLx0
It's important to know what the real Ten Commandments are, found in Exodus 34:10-28, because all of the biblical stories are based on them. People like the fake ones from Exodus chapter 20 because they are more user friendly whereas the real ones in Exodus chapter 34 are ethnocentric and the first one says to invade other people's land and to destroy their religious artifacts and to engage in ethnic cleansing. It's the only one people have ever followed.
Nead 13:20 (TLR) = "Bring therefore the first born of your oxen, children and those of your maidservants to the tabernacle. Lead them to the alter and give to each a water fowl, saying: "Cast stones upon the sabbath day for the yoke of the lord shall then be redeemed, and let no one ask who came last and least"
December 25th isn`t really the birth of our Lord but I`m so grateful that he was born, It is mentioned in the prophet Isiah chapter 9 verses 6 following; and chapter 7 verses 14 and continuing; about oh 600 years before Christ was born; How is that for prophecy being dead on correct? December 25th should mean more then gathering with family and having a warm place to live and sumptuous food, plus exchanging gifts. It has a colossal meaning. God entered the world he became in the exact image of humanity. A light has shone in the darkness all rejoice: Can you even comprehend the ramifications of that. That the God who made all and everything came into the human time and space. To live a brief time here and eventually be horribly treated and beaten savagely and killed. He who knew no sin became sin for us so that we won`t have to pay the penalty we so aptly deserve. Which is death. Lets face it where all sinners the difference between Professing Christians and non is that we are covered by his sacrifice the propitiation and the expiation was all completed at the cross. All with jesus precious blood and agony. So when I see December 25th ridiculed like it has been I really feel sorry for the people doing it; You know I pray for them. Please if you get anything out of December 25th just thank God for how he speared you and your friends and loved ones.
@DC "just thank God for how he speared you and your friends and loved ones."
God hasn't speared me, though sometimes Christians look daggers at me and hurl barbed comments.
Isiah chapter 9 verses 6 "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. "
"It is mentioned in the prophet Isiah chapter 9 verses 6 following; and chapter 7 verses 14 and continuing; about oh 600 years before Christ was born; ***How is that for prophecy being dead on correct?"
--------------------------------------------------------------
Not at all really, as that would rather require evidence that this typically vague biblical passage was fulfilled in any meaningful way, and if anyone could demonstrate that you wouldn't be laughably touting this as compelling apologetics. Incidentally the people who wrote that "prophesy" don't believe it has been fulfilled either.
I read 7 though 14 and see nothing remotely resembling a prophesy of any kind.
Your burden for proof or evidence seems characteristically low and biased to me, sorry. I view such claims with an unbiased and therefore open mind, as I apply the same criteria to this as to all claims, that evidence be presented to support them that are commensurate to the claim. So to claim a fulfilled prophesy involving something supernatural it would need to be so compelling as to leave no reasonable doubt that a supernatural prophesy had been both claimed and exactly fulfilled, and could not remotely be explained in any other way.
This does'n't come close to that, unsurprisingly.
Re: DC (in general)
Well..... anyway.... *deep sigh*
December 25th is special only in that I get to enjoy the whole day with family and friends. The week off from work is equally welcome, though it has absolutely no religious connotation for me whatsoever. I can enjoy it all, and never once waste any of it thinking about the holidays religious origins, any more than I dwell on the pagan solstice that was originally celebrated at this time of year, and which early christians hijacked to lend some gravitas to their own religion.
Devout would have you believe that "jesus" was predicted by ancient profits. Prediction is a con-artist game. They are always vague on purpose. there is no real prediction just some vague description of a coming messiah. Hell, I can predict that and somehow, someone, at some time will fit a narrative to say my prediction is true. That is the case with the messiah prediction. Christians claim over 600 predictions of a messiah yet all are vague with no detail of exact dates. The closest actually speaks of the land of Judah, well isn't that convenient? Judah happens to be the land of the jews, the very fucking people making the prediction! Fucking stupid. There is NO and I mean NO evidence that any of these vague predictions ever came true or are about a specific person in a specific place. There statements like riding a donkey, oh hey, guess what, THAT WAS THE MODE OF TRAVEL BACK THEN! It is fucking ridiculous for anyone to claim that these fucked up vague predictions are at all accurate.
Hey, I have a prediction. Within the next millennia, there will be a war, blood will be shed, and the innocent will suffer. You just wait, it's gonna happen.
My prediction is EASILY as accurate as ANY FUCKING THING IN THE FUCKING BIBLE!
The numbskulls predicted a messiah but couldn't even get an accurate calendar together. I call BULLSHIT.
The fact is there is no proof of jesus even being born. The fucking church HIJACKED the winter solstice festival because people celebrated the winter solstice.
It isn't coincidental that they decided to celebrate christmas in 336, just a few years after they compiled the first, what we now call a bible.
"The first recorded date of Christmas being celebrated on December 25th was in 336, during the time of the Roman Emperor Constantine (he was the first Christian Roman Emperor). A few years later, Pope Julius I officially declared that the birth of Jesus would be celebrated on the 25th December."
It's funny (odd0 that all christians say for certain that jesus was born but they don't even know when. They think they know where and to whom, but still don't know when. How fucked up is that? There is nothing in ANY fucking bible that I can't find that tells you the actual day their beloved jesus was born!
So christians say they know where to whom, and who was born, but they don't know exactly when. Pretty important bit of information to leave out don't ya think? And since the ONLY so-called record of jesus being born under Roman rule mind you (probably the most prolific record takers of all time) is only in the bible, it makes you wonder if that is true or not. Since there is NO and I mean NO confirmation, my guess is that it isn't true at all. Let alone that the jesus was some supernatural being that could and did defy the laws of physics!
So let's just enjoy the winter solstice as a marker of time and forget all the christmas nonsense. It is basically a holiday reinvented by Macy's anyway!
Dog-gone-it, Myk. I love how you don't put up with bullshit. Wish we could sit down and have a couple of beers together. That would be great.
@Tin-man
I'll sit down with you but I don't drink. I am an alcoholic. Haven't touched a drop in over 20 years. I don't miss it at all.
@Myk
I'm perfectly okay with a Coke or a tea. It would be an honor just to have a nice sit-down and shoot the shit awhile. And congratulations on your twenty years. Impressive.
The honor would be mine believe me. Hey, the only tough year was the first. After that, it has been a piece of cake. To be honest, in person, I am quite boring. Not many people get me.
A short description.
I am a tough guy. What I mean by that is that I am not a biker type or a weightlifter type. I am just a tough son of a bitch. I don't suffer pseudo-macho assholes.
I like to speak in what one might call idealism. I like old comedy, film noir, clever wordplay, puns. I don't like stupid humor like 'Dumb and Dumber'.
I have been a great many places so I know a little about a great many things and places and am not an expert in any of them. I am not particularly competitive. Most Americans are overly competitive. I find it unnecessary. I like people but underneath I don't trust them. I am easily offended but not overtly so, unless I am on a forum. I like to tell risque jokes even dirty. I know about 400 by memory. That makes me boring to most people. I am original.
So that's me. How about you?
@Myk Re: "How about you?"
Well, in regards to trusting people, my job before I retired did not allow for that luxury very often. I get along with people well enough, I suppose, but under the surface I always have my guard up. Perhaps I can explain it better with a quote from General Mattis: "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."
Otherwise, people in general fascinate me. I am fortunate enough to have been to a few places around the world and experience other cultures, and I thoroughly enjoy observing the various interactions between people in various societies.
My sense of humor knows very few (if any) boundaries, and I can laugh at just about any type of comedy. Hell, for that matter, I can laugh at many things that most people would NEVER consider to be comedy or humorous in any way. I totally love hearing different jokes, but I have an absolutely shitty memory for them.
To my chagrin, many people over the years have referred to me as a "scary, dangerous guy". (My wife calls me a "dangerous nerd" lol) Personally, I do not see it that way. While it is true my training and experience helped get me through a few hairy situations along the way, there was just as much luck involved in others. Sometimes the dice roll in your favor, sometimes they don't. Many of my "brothers" along the way rolled snake-eyes.
As my profile states, I am not easily offended at all. I read something somewhere before (Can't remember where. Could have been a fortune cookie. Who knows?) that has always stuck with me: "If someone tries to insult you by saying something that isn't true, then why get upset or be insulted if you know it is not true? And if someone tries to insult you by telling you something that IS true, then why get upset or be insulted if it is true?" That may not be exact, but you get the idea. Keep in mind, that is only with insults. Threats, on the other hand.... well, that is another ballgame altogether.
Contrary to how I may appear on this site, I am not a very social guy at all. My wife and I live out in a rural area somewhat off the beaten path. Aside from infrequent interactions with a very small handful of friends, we pretty much keep to ourselves, and that is how I like it. I have my tractor, my workshop, and my sewing machine. Good to go.
I love sci-fi books, many of the classics, and the good ol' black-ops government espionage stories. Math and logic puzzles are also a favorite.
Not sure how much more there is to tell. You can probably deduce a bit more from my various posts, I suppose. Otherwise, I'm just an average guy who is amazed he has made it this far, and I intend to enjoy my remaining years with as much peace and quiet as I can stand. *chuckle*
Hasta luego, mi Amigo.
For me, December 25th means two things, and only two: yesterday was the 24th, and tomorrow will be the 26th. Any other happenings are coincidental, as my family typically celebrates the yule holiday erratically due to holiday season work schedules. Last year, we didn't open presents or drink spiked eggnog until the 28th, so my dad could be there from out of state.