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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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I've only been here for a week, myself. Many here knew the Jesus story, hook, line, and sinker. They are not new to it. You say the Bible blah, blah, blah. Are you still "humbled and grateful"? Do you still want to talk with folks who are not "terribly polite?" People outside your... gag... neighborhood?
You were closed minded from the beginning. You didn't want the "rude" answers, or the "disrespectful" comments. You're not the first Theist to think it up. And when you didn't get the answers you liked, all of a sudden, instead of discussing points with the forum, you end up telling us to read the bible.
We already have! Most of us are ex-Christians here. Care to know why? No, you couldn't handle honesty that doesn't adore your beliefs.
I used to teach Romans in adult bible study. Have you ever wondered where the bible got all those numbers? Why there are so many English translations? Why is there a Catholic bible, a Jehovah's Witness bible, a Mormon bible, and other translations? Why are there so many translations depending on the denomination? Catholics use a version that JWs don't. Mormon bibles.
I'm not asking you to be anything except what you are. Just the question, if you can. Based on your answer, I can explain why those in this forum reject the bible.
Thanks.
p.s. what class are you taking?
Why did you walk away?
B, I really want to converse with you, as many others do, also. But you don't play fair, lady.
I just asked you which denomination you're with. And you have the brass balls to a) ignore the questions, b) be disrespectful by ignoring me, and c) you have the audacity; the fucking arrogance to ask me, and expect an answer, about why I walked away from Xtianity.
You can't even tell us which denomination you're with. Xtians never see their own arrogance.
@Bhawk
Well now, what an unexpected surprise. Honestly wasn't expecting to see you return. Welcome back. *Big Grin* So, in one of your earlier posts you said you grew up in the South? By golly! I'm an Alabama-raised boy, myself. Baptist and Methodist on top of that. Even had an Uncle who was a Methodist preacher. Suffice it to say, I am very well acquainted with the people and culture down here. Anyway, with that out of the way, I simply could not resist addressing that fantastic sermon with which you just blessed us all.
For starters, I find it a bit interesting how you initially presented yourself as some sort of young and naïve school girl who - as you said - "lives in a bubble" with very little experience outside your own little sheltered community/world. And you absolutely refused to provide any other info about yourself or your beliefs, even when asked politely. Then, however, you disappear for a couple of days, but suddenly return as some "experienced" mother in a long-term marriage and acting as though you are somehow shocked and insulted that some people on here would treat you as though you were one of the "teenage student drive-by" theists we so frequently get. Amusing, to say the least. *chuckle* Anyway, about that sermon you just preached....
Re: "The ones that try to belittle my intelligence or turn back on me with rude, vulgar comments show their state of mind and heart."
If it makes you feel any better, I do not post anything on this forum that I would not say face to face to anybody I might address on here. That's just who I am. And I address an individual on here based on how that individual presents himself/herself, the same way I would do if I were facing that same person in real life. Just so you know....
Re: "Origin: I believe that I am a created being made in the image of an intelligent Creator." (That whole paragraph)
I would call that entire view "naïve", but I'm afraid that would be a terrible understatement. Even IF we were created by some type of "creator", then that particular creator was FAR FROM intelligent. You were almost right with that first statement, though. It is just a bit backwards, is all. It was actually the "intelligent creator" that was created in the image of Man. As for the rest of that paragraph, you really don't know very much about science, do you?
Re: "Meaning/ Purpose: As I read and study the Bible, it reveals to me that I am made to bring glory to God."
Which god, please? You really need to be more specific. Aside from the thousands of gods outside the bible, there seems to be quite a few others mentioned IN the bible. Inferred or referred to, at the very least. So, it might help if you specify exactly to which god you are meant to bring glory. Ra? Odin? Ptah? Isis? Hathor?... (Well, you get the idea. The list is practically endless.)
Re: "I understand that we are by nature recipients of God's rightful wrath because of the willful disobedience of the parents of mankind."
Ooooooo.... Here's a goodie! I could probably write an entire essay about just this one sentence. Sadly, you will just have to do with the Cliff Notes on here. For starters..... "God's rightful wrath." Oh, you mean the omniscient, omnipotent, and - .... wait for it.... - OMNIBENEVOLENT god? That god? Hmmmm.... Am I the only one who sees the complete and total contradiction here? And as far as our being the recipients of that horrible wrath (from an all-loving and all-forgiving god) due to the disobedience of the "parents of Mankind", have you ever ONCE stopped to consider it was supposedly YOUR same "all-perfect" god who made those "parents" IN HIS OWN IMAGE (that is according to your OWN teachings)? Oh, and here's something else to consider. If (hypothetically) you were to go out and rob a bank and shoot a bunch of people in the process, would you be okay with the police going to arrest your great grandchildren for YOUR crime, even though they have not even been born yet? Juuuuuuuuust sayin'......
Re: "Destiny: My husband is in public service and has been with hundreds of people as they've taken their last breath. He has seen the change when a soul leaves the body."
Respects to your husband, by the way. Personally, I spent twenty years patrolling some of the worst neighborhoods in Alabama, and I spent seventeen years in the Army with three combat deployments. Suffice it to say I have seen more people die than I sometimes care to remember, some of them being friends and family. And I am here to tell you right now I have never seen anything even remotely resembling a "soul" leave any of those bodies. Some went more peacefully than others. And a few there was barely enough left of them to determine if they were even human. The heart stops pumping, the lungs stop breathing, the brain dies of oxygen starvation, and we cease to exist. Period. End of story. I do not fear death any more than I was ever in fear of being born.
Re: "God will have a final judgement where those who hated him will be cast into a lake of fire..."
Ahhhhh... And the threats finally emerge. (Once again, from that "Omnibenevolent" god.) Let me ask you something.... Do you hate Santa? Do you hate the Easter Bunny? I'm guessing you probably don't. To hate them would be absurd, would it not? Why? Because I am also guessing you don't believe in them. Well, guess what.... In that same respect, how exactly do you presume to say that I (or any other atheists) hate god? How (or WHY) would we ever hate something we do not believe exists? That would just be silly.
Wow.... So many other things I would love to address, but it is getting late, and this post is getting too long. May come back tomorrow and touch on a couple of other items of interest. I must say, after reading that wonderful sermon, I have to wholeheartedly agree with you when you said you have lived a very sheltered life "in a bubble." You really should get out more.
(Edited for spelling and grammar)
@ tm
WHERE THE DANG HELLFIRE IS THAT 10,000 AGREES? Seriously dude, a well written piece.
And as for Miss Ms? Mrs goody two shoes Hellfire...pfft. Someone who lies for jaysus is hardly to be taken seriously. Except to a secure mental facility where she can live out her fantasies of burning every man woman and child in "lakes of fire" while she chortles in the sidelines with her swarthy jewish consort. Oh wait...she DOES know that Jesus was actually jewish?
It’s so bizarre that you come across as though any other way of thinking/believing is moronic if it differs from yours. I think I see more clearly now thanks to your responses that you don’t simply have a non-belief in God, but a great distaste for anyone who does believe. You say I am trying to preach, but aren’t you also by squashing my answers. Why do you care so much if you think I live in a fantasy? I’m sorry you’ve had much pain in your life. I imagine that’s why you’ve declared war against people like me. I’ve had pain and great loss as well, our only difference is I ran towards God and you went as far away as possible. Just let people be. Quit insulting their thinking. If you don’t agree, fine. You don’t need to be a jerk about it.
There is a world of difference between having a distaste for a belief and having a distaste for anyone who believes. It's also fairly hypocritical for you to make this claim when you also try to claim atheists are incapable of morality. Though it is a level of hypocrisy many theists seem perfectly at ease with.
"You say I am trying to preach,"
That is demonstrated as a fact in many of your posts.
"but aren’t you also by squashing my answers. "
No, that is an absurd claim.
"Why do you care so much if you think I live in a fantasy?"
Who has chased whom to preach their beliefs here? This is an atheist leaning forum, if any atheist came to your church and started lecturing you in such a sententious manner I doubt harsh rebuttals they could walk away from, would be all they'd have to worry about.
"I’ve had pain and great loss as well, our only difference is I ran towards God and you went as far away as possible."
One cannot run away from from what does not exist, so until someone can demonstrate some objective evidence for any deity your claim is again absurdly silly.
"Just let people be. "
Again you have sought out atheists to lecture and preach to, not the other way around. Your beliefs can be ring-fenced if you keep them away from those who disagree, but once you start to make claims and demands about them they're fair game.
@Bhawk Re: The entire post starting with "It’s so bizarre that you come across as though any other way of thinking/believing is moronic if it differs from yours."
LOL.... Oh, my dear lady. Who is making assumptions now? *chuckle*.... I find it incredibly amusing how you seem to believe that I was "angry" or being rude in my response to your sermon. Quite the contrary, actually. I am a very happy man and I thoroughly enjoy my life. And when I wrote my response to you it was with a happy heart and a smile on my face. Matter of fact, I am in an incredibly good mood today even as I type this post. So, rest assured, I have absolutely no feelings of anger or ill will toward you in any way. Granted, I may pity you a bit, perhaps, but I do not think you are a moron. And I most certainly have no desires or intentions of "declaring war" against "people like you." As far as I am concerned, you are simply just another fellow/lady human being on this tiny speck of dust we call Earth, and you are free to believe in anything you like. So, with that in mind, please allow me a moment to expand upon a couple of specific comments you made....
Re: "You say I am trying to preach, but aren’t you also by squashing my answers."
Actually, I wasn't saying you are "trying" to preach. I was pretty much being straightforward and saying you WERE preaching. My apologies if I was not clear about that. Also, my responding by pointing out logical flaws and asking questions to help you think along lines you may have never considered is not preaching. And if some of those questions I ask make you uncomfortable and disturb your beliefs in such that they make you highly defensive and confrontational, then that is not MY problem. Seems to me that is something you need to work out for yourself. Thankfully, I have already worked out such issues with myself, which is why I am such a happy man and very confident and comfortable with my life and my views. The fact you seem to be getting angry about somebody questioning your beliefs actually tells me quite a bit about your personality. And, honestly, I feel rather sad about that.
Re: "Why do you care so much if you think I live in a fantasy?"
Uh, like I said a minute ago, "I don't care." Frankly, it is absolutely non of my business what you do or don't believe, just as it is nobody's business what I do or don't believe (unless I take it upon myself to share those beliefs with others). And if I do happen to express my views to others, then they have every right to express their opinions and/or counter-views. And if I don't want to hear their opinions/counter-views, then I should have kept my mouth shut. And that is exactly the way it should be. But, unless I am mistaken, YOU are the one who decided to visit an ATHEIST site and regurgitate such an eloquent sermon to us, displaying your views and beliefs for all to see. But then you balk when people actually start pointing out some of the absurdities and ask questions to make you think about possibilities you are afraid to explore. Personally, I find that to be hilarious. *chuckle* Gets even better, though. You accuse us of judging you as being "moronic". Personally, I am not judging YOU at all. Hell, I don't even know you, so how could I possibly judge you??? Your belief system, on the other hand, it absolutely fair game once you put it out there. I was merely pointing out some of the more obvious flaws in that system, just as others have pointed out the flaws they have discovered in that system. It is not OUR fault if YOU happen to take those criticisms personally.
Re: "I’ve had pain and great loss as well, our only difference is I ran towards God and you went as far away as possible."
LOL... Again, you crack me up. In a way I should probably thank you, because it has actually been a joy responding to your posts. Anyway, oh, you better believe I have had some pain and hardships in my life. But, so what? How does that make me any different from any other person on this planet? And despite all the shit I have encountered in my life, I still have to admit it could have been worse, because I happen to know a great many people who have had it far worse in life than I have. So, in that respect, I consider myself a very fortunate guy. I'm still here. I am still in good health. I am living a fairly comfortable life with my amazing wife, and I have very few worries and stressors with which to contend. Heck, Life is good. *grin* As far as anything causing me to "run away from god", I find it very silly to consider running away from something I do not believe in. You see, despite being raised in a Baptist/Methodist family and being taught about the bible and Jesus and heaven and hell from the moment I was able to have cognitive thoughts, none of that stuff ever made sense to me. Not even when I was a kid. Sure, I was baptized (twice) and tried my best to respect the teachings from my elders, but I could never get past all the contradictions and the hypocrisy I saw in the religious teachings. And THAT was as a very young, inexperienced, and not-so-fully educated little kid. As I got older, better educated, and much more experienced, all those inconsistencies and contradictions became even more glaringly obvious. The only thing holding me back from disposing of the nonsense altogether was the ingrained fear of hell. And the day I finally figured out how to toss that load of crap threat into the appropriate garbage can was the best day of my life. Since that day, I have felt more free and lighthearted than I ever have in my life. No more doubts. No more insecurities. No more uncomfortable qualms when around religious people/places. Complete peace of mind. It is fantastic.
Re: "Just let people be."
I whole heartedly agree. As long as they do not harm others or infringe upon the rights of others, people should be allowed to believe as they like. I have zero problems with that mindset. Interestingly enough, though, in all my years on this planet, I have never seen or heard of an atheist going door-to-door in different neighborhoods on a Saturday morning intruding into people's personal space to preach to them about atheism. I have lost count, however, of how many times over the years I have had members of various churches knocking on my doors during my morning routine wanting to "spread their joyous news" and convince me to join their church. Irony much? Oh, and just as a reminder, YOU are the one who strolled into an atheist site and preached your sermon to US.
Re: "Quit insulting their thinking. If you don’t agree, fine. You don’t need to be a jerk about it."
I really love this part. You come in here preaching your fire and brimstone and telling us how badly we are all going to burn in hell for not believing in your precious fairy tale. And I could be wrong, but I do believe I detected a touch of self-righteous pride and glee as you sat atop your high-horse and delivered that mighty promise in the name of your "loving god." But we "don’t need to be a jerk about it." Yep, that is definitely cause for amusement, in my book. Please forgive me, but I have a very warped and expansive sense of humor, and I find your sense of arrogance to be fairly hilarious. And YOUR telling US to quit insulting the thinking of others?..... Bwaaaaa-haaaaa-haaaaaa....!!!...*wiping tears from eyes*.... Oh, thank you!.... *trying to catch breath*..... Phew! I needed a good laugh!... Bwaa-haa-haa.... Oh, and as far as my being a jerk?... Well, you can feel free to ask just about anybody who has been on here long enough, and they will likely tell you I am actually being very polite and nice and understanding at the moment. Oh, I can definitely be a jerk if necessary. In your case, however, it simply is not necessary. If anything, I am simply doing you the honor and courtesy of being honest and straightforward with you. And if my honesty disturbs you and makes you uncomfortable, then that is your problem, not mine. Have a nice day.
(Edited for grammar and to add a couple of clarifying points.)
B, you come across as "moronic" to some, because of your POSTS. Of course you think differently, and that's fine.
YOU chose to come to an atheist forum, and we're glad you did. My theory is you're just not used to communicating with the real world. Real World, hereby, means anything/anybody outside your daily routine. It's like when a five year old on their first day of kindergarten. I'm NOT calling you childish. My point is your obvious small, small, small view of everything.
We're glad you're here. Now, it seems you are coming out of your comfort zone, and that is great!
When you use phrases like "I imagine...", that's why it seems you live in a fantasy. AND don't presume that you know other lives ("...and you went as far away as possible.) If you're not to going to play fair, kiddo, don't be surprised.
1) what's the name of the class you're taking?
2) what denomination are you with?
These are very simple questions. The fact that you chose not to answer them is very rude. You're a grown up, right? Mind your manners, and don't ignore me.
btw, Tin-Man is being very nice to you. You should see him when he posts to me; he's awful!! (ssmile)
@MB Re: "btw, Tin-Man is being very nice to you. You should see him when he posts to me; he's awful!! (ssmile)"
LMAO.... Awww, thank you, MB. *Big Grin* You say the nicest things.... *blushing*... Love ya....*smooch*...
Tin-Man: *smooch*...
EWWW! boy cooties! yuck!
@MB Re: Boy cooties
No worries. My cooties get their shots regularly every year. Sure, it's expensive, but I try to be a responsible cootie owner.
@ Bhawkins
Quit insulting their thinking. If you don’t agree, fine. You don’t need to be a jerk about it.
Keerist that's the second time this morning that we had a close "spit me tea on the keyboard moment" Just as well I am obeying Arakish' Third Commandment. Captain Cat has had a much drier life...
So, you come to an atheist forum, masquerading as something you plainly are not. Were given answers that you didn't agree with or could not logically fault in any way.
Then you launch into a pathetic diatribe where you preach at us all as if we were errant teenagers at the block party, and to cap it all you refuse to identify your particular sect/creed of christianity that you espouse so that we can identify which species of arrant nonsense it actually is?
And to cap it off you have a shot at me for getting testy with you? Irony much?
Moronic is far too nice a word for your evident thought processes. Arrogant, hateful, hubris and deceit spring readily to mind. Mind, given a few minutes I could think of more.
"And lastly, what IF you are actually wrong and Christianity is right?"
Argumentum ad ignorantiam, an attempt to reverse the burden of proof again. Atheism can't be wrong, as it makes no claims and is not a belief, but the lack of one single belief.
"“ the issue has not changed and is not intellectual but moral"
Well now, he and I are of one mind, after all what decent human being with any grasp of morality needs to be told that behaviours like rape and murder are wrong, let alone could worship a petulant, murderous, genocidal, sadistic, narcissistic, megalomaniac as depicted int he bible?
"Man suppresses the truth about God and seeks to live without restraint. "
Nonsense, go to Sweden or Norway, this is such an over used theistic lie it's become a cliche.
"The scariest thing to a sinful person in all of the world is the holiness of God."
The "holiness of god" doesn't seem to be very scary to the multitude of catholic priests who rape the children in their care. Or to the christians who perpetrated the inquisition, the crusades, the Holocaust, the genocides in Rwanda and the Balkans? Or who ripped Africans from their homes and families and shipped them in chains to the american colonies, where more christians were waiting to buy and own them in the most barbaric and inhumane fashion. Happy to do so no doubt as it was endorsed from both bible and pulpit. Hitler may be claimed to be a bad catholic, but he seems to have recruited most of the millions of christians in Germany to help him perpetrate the holocaust, in what he referred to repeatedly, and in Mein Kampf as "God's work". There is a reason only christians were allowed in the German SS, and why they has God with us inscribed on their belt buckles, as they went about their murderous work.
Of course given this was how their deity introduced itself to humanity in the bible, by encouraging the same murderously cruel, and barbaric genocide, slavery, and rapine, well it's hardly a surprise, but it is a bit rich for any christian to try and claim moral ascendancy.
"Origin-
Where do you think man came from/ how did we get here?"
We evolved via a branch of the ape lineage.
"Meaning-
What is the meaning of life as you see it? Is it about being happy, doing good to fellow man, living for pleasure, etc."
If you are talking about an intrinsic meaning, I don't see any. If you are asking what makes life worth living, then you will get almost as many different answers as people asked. A good game of chess, a good math problem or puzzle, good friends, good food and wine, travel in foreign countries, a comfortable home, good health, kicking back under a dark sky and enjoying the stars, swimming in an ocean cove, creating art and music, helping others, and being in love are some answers you might get. Even religion works for many people, though one may have to wear blinders.
"Purpose-
Do you think each human being has a purpose for being on the earth?"
The word "purpose" implies an intelligent designer who had a purpose in mind, and evolution nixes that.
"Destiny-
What do you think happens to the part of us that makes us “us” when we die?"
The part of us that makes us "us" is information, our unique experiences and feelings. Such information doesn't survive the dissolution of the physical body.
My disdain for this Mrs Bhawkins is infinite. I may as well call her Mrs Bin Laden because there is little difference between her and the ex-wife of that famous terrorist leader. She has the capacity to actually learn but instead chooses to stay ignorant and insulate herself in her work at a ministry and stay within the warm and fuzzy confines of her religious world. She believes were were born into sin, and have to pray and bend our knees or else we will suffer hell.
I could go on for pages, but hey, when you run across someone who's only belief system is faith and can not tell the difference between a genome and a lawn gnome, why should I waste my time venting against such ignorance?
I have more respect for a New Orleans crack hooker.
This right here is why I would never in a million years be able to have a civilized conversation with folks like you. You are an angry man that resorts to bashing people that are different than you. Basically the little boy with a handful of rocks mentality. So sorry you’ve been hurt to such a degree that you’ve lost the ability to show kindness to a stranger.
I am very good at showing kindness to any stranger. But you are what is wrong with America and the rest of the world, choosing to live in ignorance and making a mockery of democracy. Your reasons for your beliefs is faith, and faith alone. And faith is not a consistent pathway to the truth, only an avenue into a warm and fuzzy fantasy world.
It is hypocrisy to complain of others having harsh words towards you while worshiping a being who according to its scripture practices eternal torture.
Bhawkins, earlier you wrote, “I am not even exaggerating when I say I live in a bubble. I know it and want to change it!”
And yet you come here and want folks here to play according to your rules. And by the words you are writing, you seem to indicate you’re upset when they don’t.
Sigh...
"A've always dependen' on the kandness o' straingers."
sorry, I couldn't resist.
BHawkins reminds me of celebrities who think they shouldn't wait in line, like the rest of us. Now, we're not "civilized". Hey, lady, I'm civilized because I always pray before I post anything.
I bet she's Southern Baptist. I also don't think she's attending classes. And I bet she's fat and ugly. (I just cain't help myself! I'm so uncivilized! Please teach me manners, B.)
@ DK
" can not tell the difference between a genome and a lawn gnome, why should I waste my time venting against such ignorance?
I have more respect for a New Orleans crack hooker."
Oh man, I am so stealing that line......
Bhawkins (if you are still around),
Here is a good one for you. I never walked away. I was never a believer. I think all religion is nothing more than a heinous boil on the ass of humanity. It should be lanced and eradicated.
rmfr
And what is it you Religious Absolutists do about our way of thinking that differs from yours?
rmfr
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