Hello there! Now, the reason about this Topic is because on almost every occasion that I find myself debating with a Christian through the internet, he always seems to answer the question with a question or an almost senseless sentence, most of which including "holy words".
The most common one is:
Me - "Can you prove God exists?"
Him - "Can you prove God doesn't exist?"
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Now what I find here idiotic, is the Idea that one can simply say that "if you think he doesn't exist, can you prove it" and it's just nerve-wrecking.
If a researcher or scientist (etc..) brings up a Theory which requires a substantial amount evidence and he manages to bring those then that Theory is proved to be true. And when he doesn't bring a substantial amount of evidence, it is brought down.
Now if we turn that "researcher" into a self-proclaimed "prophet" or "disciple" of God, and then he ends up bringing a Theory that God exists and that Humanity and the Universe is the result of intelligent design, yet he cannot provide Substantial Evidence other than words and fairy-tales.
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Now what I ask here is, why isn't that Theory brought down as any other (flat Earth theory, no Gravity theory etc..) when it lacks substantial evidence?
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Intelligent design has been brought down. ID is not a field of science.
Well, Christians still argue while believing in it, they refuse it, I mean they're cherry-picking on what suits their "beliefs" instead of what contradicts it. Such a great religion of tolerance where you are not allowed to ask for "what or why".
The internet scares the crap out of theists. For years they were able to isolate their kids from scientific information that ran counter to their beliefs. From home schooling to religious colleges like Liberty University to a job in their social circles, they could keep reality out. Those days are over!
To para-phrase Feynman: "it is impossible to show that any sufficiently vague idea is wrong". And intelligent design is an incredibly vague idea.
Totally vague, hugely vague, amazingly vague, it's such a beautiful, greatly vague idea.
"The most common one is:
Me - "Can you prove God exists?"
Him - "Can you prove God doesn't exist?"
The theist has the burden of proof since they are making the supernatural claim. (Repeat numerous times since they experience hearing problems once this important point is made)
Yes! That is exactly what I'm saying, they are stating that claim, yet they do not provide proof for it and they find it "true", or as one fundamentalist christian once said, "God" is "beyond logic", which caused a immediate migraine.
Can you prove that unicorns don't exist? The answer is no. Dear Theists: I don't believe in unicorns or in gods... but you believe in god or gods so you have the burden of proof. Prove that unicorns I mean god or gods exist. Ready??? Go
You must first understand where and why the theist is coming from. What does one do when one's argument or theory is indefensible? Well, you lie of course!
The theist has to defend something that has been driven into their brain, either from birth or by an unrelenting process of multisided attacks, i.ie. the promise of comfort or some other unfulfillable promise.
The theist can only rely on information that they have been given, not logic or facts because their position is illogical and has no facts to support it.
Look at Sean Spicer, Trump's press secretary. He can't defend Trump's action so he attacks the press that questions those actions. It's called distraction and turning the tale.
Example:
You ask a theist to prove his/her god. They can't of course so they respond by demanding the YOU prove that there is no god (illogical)! You argue further and eventually, you reach the point that the theist has exhausted his entire arsenal of lies and tricks. Then the theist will inevitably state "You have to have faith."
It's a cop-out for having NO proof whatsoever.
I make a statement "There is no god unless you can produce and prove said, god." This is a true statement that is self-evident. BUT, the theist will demand that I prove that there is no god.
Thanks, that pretty much explains the rest. It's really weird right? The idea that people still follow when they realize (possibly) they're not standing in the right side.
(Quote)
"You have to have faith."
How many times do we hear this nonsense? When you stop to analyze this response, it amounts to attempting to prove one subjective (god) with another subjective (faith). It's hopeless insanity. It's only basis is in their biased minds! There is no way in the world anyone is going to change the thinking of anyone who responds with the "faith" belief. These folks will support their "faith" belief around a myriad of confirmation bias sources. Logic and scientific principles have no credibility or value to theists with closed minds.
One of the definitions of subjective:
(philosophy) of a mental act performed entirely within the mind
(Source: Wordweb Dictionary)
By the way, I do not get involved in these types of discourse any longer. I will usually state my position/belief in a very brief, logical manner and walk away. I am NOT a recruiter for atheism. The evidence of the fallacy of god -- any god -- confronts us face to face everyday of our lives. A person has to deliberately reject the overwhelming evidence. For me, the job of recruiting converts is that of theism ... not atheism. (Note: I realize this is NOT the belief of many atheists. That's OK. Mass conformity isn't a desired trait of atheism anyway.)
I still say that the agnostic position is the only plausible one here in this life long argument There is as of this moment no evidence either way. the only thing we have is propositions deriving on theories.
This is basic. The time to believe anything is when there is proof or at least good evidence to believe it. This is true about god claims, unicorns, pixies and trolls. I don't believe any of the god claims I have heard so I am an atheist. Agnosticism is about what claim to know. We can be both atheist and agnostic. These are not mutually exclusive positions.
if you look at some of the arguments from both theist and atheist the theist claims the big bang and the teleological argument and the morality argument for Gods existence, While the non-believer in god or Gods takes the view from evil and suffering and out of that comes a whole list of argumentation the moral,etc, Science has come a long way with biology and physics cosmology but still is no closer in explaining the why.I always ponder as an agnostic why and how completely different male and female are and how did they derive on this planet we know as earth the 3rd planer from the biggest star the sun.I t is amazing how I as a male get physical pleasure from a female and how I can impregnate her to have my children. I t seems that there is some kind of intelligence behind this.Also the brain do we know what makes up the human mind consciousness nerves neuro transmitters all pulsating in our head.I don`t feel that we derived from naturalist properties.You look at shakesphare and devinci you see a kind of genius there.
@Simply Agnostic: "Science has come a long way with biology and physics cosmology but still is no closer in explaining the why."
And religions have gone a long way backwards with theology, scriptures, and gospels, but they're still not one step closer to proving that any of their gods are more real than Mickey Mouse or Superman. What if there is no "why" and the universe just is? That's only a problem for us because of our human preoccupation with motivation. The universe is under no obligation to explain itself to us.
That's a favorite device of religous apologists. Science can't explain XYZ yet. Therefore god exists.
Algebe do you really deep down in your heart believe maybe the universe just is. All that involves life just is?i fullt understand what you mean by mans motivational factors here. But some how Algebe I just can`t come to believe that where only molecules and atoms.Even in my conversion to agnosticism the past month now, I still am reaching for some kind of explanation.Can all this somehow be accidental? What then is love worth? Also look at cells and genes is there anymore that science can do on this big question?I use to sit in the catholic church and just was amazed at the crucifix of Jesus Christ, Of the whole tradition of this particular church, was he a lunatic liar or fraud or was he really the son of God? The apologist C.S. Lewis was an atheist in his early years we all know how he wrote, And this kind of questioning disturbed him to no end.I know that he favored the Anglican church being from English decent but he stayed with the church until his death. What makes such a thinker like that turn from atheism to belif in God?I t must be something.
You might notice that Lewis' "lunatic, liar, or lord" argument leave out one (at least) very important "L": legend.
@Simply Agnostic: "Algebe do you really deep down in your heart believe maybe the universe just is."
Absolutely. Life is what happens while you're busy trying to figure out the meaning of life. The universe is enough. Love is its own justification. They don't need god.
As I've commented elsewhere on this forum, I find it very puzzling that highly intelligent people could be theists. I wonder if they see something we don't, or perhaps great intelligence causes certain imbalances that make geniuses vulnerable to flights of religious fantasy. Being smarter than everyone you know must be a lonely feeling.
That's known as the "I don't understand something. It must be God!" syndrome.
I think the entire point is missed if we simply take a glance at the historicity of god-making, god-evolving, and god-affirming. It's a pretty quick study and to still claim that god exists is telling of a very frightened demographic unwilling to accept the alternative.
Yo biggus here. I need to tell you something. There was a man born 2000 years ago with over sized genitals that had to ejaculate in front of crowds for your inability to please woman properly. that man is me. now if you will accept me as your savior you will get 100 virgins when you die. if not they will have Sexually transmittable diseases OK!. prove me wrong!