Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Log in or create an account to join the discussions on the Atheist Republic forums.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
FREE E-BOOKS
Get the book "Why There Is No God" and one more book for FREE!
Sign up below for the Atheist Republic Newsletter to get the books.
Record Your Message!
Record your voice here for it to be aired on the Atheist Republic Voicemails Podcast.
Send us your views and opinions, your personal stories, messages of support, comments on recent news, or any comments you would like to share about your part of the world.
Note : By clicking record you are allowing us to broadcast your message on any of our platforms.
Affiliate Disclaimer
Links to atheist related books, shirts and movies and other atheism related products are affiliate links.
All proceeds will go to keeping the Atheist Republic website up and running; providing resources, advocacy, community tools and encouragement to atheists all over the world.
*Sigh* I'm not getting anywhere here haha :) I'll just agree to disagree with you :)
If he really did say that, he was a liar and an idiot of course lol
If you go right now in the middle of town square and ask everybody to give everything to the poor, you would be considered an idiot.
Why would you do an exception for a guy that can't even understand his audience?
Or why would he speak so hard to simple fisherman?
Complete idiot to say the least.
The much more probable reason is that the author just wants to make it impossible for you to be so "PERFECT".
He wants to make you feel guilty of never being good enough.
Guilty persons do not rebel or question their MASTERS.
The author considers the readers or the people as slaves.
"Creates you sick and demands you to be well."
My friend, I don't even understand everything Jesus had to say. However, the only thing that is essential for us to understand is the Gospel (because that leads to eternity in Heaven). That is as clear as day and very easy to understand :) All the other stuff is important, but not as much.
And yes, you are supposed to feel regret at the wrong you've done in your life. But there's forgiveness and love available, and you move on :)
"My friend, I don't even understand everything Jesus had to say."
Then maybe you should study history more. How can you be indifferent to the search for the truth?
(because that leads to eternity in Heaven)
What makes you think that an eternity of worship and ass licking where you are separated from your loved ones is a good thing?
How can you even consider to be happy if your loved ones are being tortured in hell because they died(accident) after sinning?
All the other stuff is important, but not as much.
All the other stuff show you that that the heaven promise is a huge con game to make you a good slave and servent in this life.
How else could they get away with child rape and extortion if they do not have the support of people like you to defend the tool(religion) from justice.
A brainwashing cult that spreads like a virus and used mindless people to defend itself.
Look at the pope and the cardinals, they are rich enough to buy their own country while they beg for money from the poor Christians.
How could they get away with this hypocrisy without religion?
And yes, you are supposed to feel regret at the wrong you've done in your life. But there's forgiveness and love available, and you move on :)
Why should you feel regret because a book told you so?
Can't you see that the author is asking the impossible to make you feel regret about the most basic things that are part of nature.
It is natural to care about the self first, to love those who love you first.
You have no reason to be guilty of those things.
The author is forcing you to beg for forgiveness to conditions he himself created for you.
And then demands that you believe everything he says without question to be forgiven.
This is a very primitive con game and you should grow up and see it for what it is.
If god truly loved you he would be there for you like a father, he would not let you die but give you a choice to be with him even if he waits for eternity. He would not give you a deadline in which after he kills you , then you are judged by him and if he deems you unworthy he tortures you for eternity.
"you move on :)"
As the French philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre pointed : an action is moral if it matches the universal criterium : it is the answer to the question : "what if everyone did the same ?" It is that easy !
Theists have nothing to live for.
Atheists have nothing to die for.
I think you totally miss the point. The Bible is full of examples of imperfection. The Bible doesn't instruct us that if we buy into a paradigm we can solve our own problems and take over the world, as, unfortunately, modern day apostate Christendom would have you think. Morality? Was David, the beloved of Jehovah God on a moral plane when he sent Uriah the Hittite to a certain death so that he could have it off with her? You see the point there as it shoots over your head and misses the target? You know what the Hebrew word for that is? Sin. You take an unbeliever who says he rejects the will of God and yet does it and you take a believer who says he will do the will of Jehovah God and he doesn't, even as Jesus demonstrated the children were aware of and the religious zealots were oblivious to you have to expand your ass achingly simplistic and pragmatic approach to morality and ethics for an intellectual excursion into what amounts to nothing more than the idealistic to an impractical degree. Quixotic.
Apologist rationalization in denial of the obvious.
So true :)
I think you totally miss the point of this thread. We are exploring the possibility that some theists' belief that their transgressions are ultimately forgiven and they need not necessarily take responsibility for their actions leads them to act in immoral ways. Your suggestion that this is tilting windmills reveals that you either didn't get that or don't want people exploring this possibility.
"You take an unbeliever who says he rejects the will of God and yet does it and you take a believer who says he will do the will of Jehovah God and he doesn't, even as Jesus demonstrated the children were aware of and the religious zealots were oblivious to you have to expand your ass achingly simplistic and pragmatic approach to morality and ethics for an intellectual excursion into what amounts to nothing more than the idealistic to an impractical degree. "
Could I get some 1000 islands with that run-on word salad?
Does THE real christian who is no apostate please mind standing up ?
Jeff
"Jesus does not say stop him, but love him as yourself and make him a member of your household.
He also says forgive every time."
ILOVEQUESTIONS-
"My friend, there is a difference between government and individuals. Individually, I'll love Hitler. I'd give him a meal and clothe him and share the Gospel with him. "
Can't you see that your religion makes you insane enough to not understand the basic meaning of LOVE.
If the perfect god said love everybody like yourself he did not mean be friendly to everybody like you seem to imply else he would have said "give him a meal and clothe him and share the Gospel with him. "
If god is perfect he used the perfect word for communicating his message.
The apologetic CANNOT change the meaning of a word without insulting god's perfection.
You think you are so much better then your god to dare claim that he means something else.
The truth is that; if your god wanted to say that you should love everybody like yourself, he couldn't have said it better and more clearer then "love everybody like yourself."
I knew that the argument was gonna go in this direction.
Why do you think that you have the right to change the meaning of god's wors as you please just because the result does not fit to your reasoning?
"Love everybody like yourself" IS NOT "be nice to people" or even "love people", it is an extreme that is not possible and a perfect god said it anyway knowing fully well of this fact.
Even a 5 year old kid can reason this.
"Haha, and no, I would not let him %*&$ my wife. That would be adultery "
Not if she also loves him like herself and you love him to, then it be consensual since you would love to fuck your wife and since you love Hitler as much as yourself, there is nothing wrong in letting him fuck your wife.
When you love someone as yourself you would share everything , yes even your wife.
For Jesus having multiple wives was not a problem(he never said anything) so why bother with having multiple husbands?
Once you fully understand what loving someone as yourself means it is apparent of how ridiculous Jesus claim is.
Impossible and ridiculous.
"But God knows this, so He allows us to take on (to adopt, to accept) the perfection of Jesus."
If Jesus is perfect, I am the god that made him and his god as my toilet paper.
The fact that he did not leave anything written by himself shows stupidity to the highest degree.
The fact that he uses a book to spread his message shows incompetence to the highest degree.
The fact that he has to save us by going through the farce of dying for 3 days just to appear human IS in itself a very stupid idea.
Even a lowly human can easily do better, JUST FORGIVE and no need of human sacrifice or bloody scenes.
But the perfect god that can't do everything, can't handle forgiveness it seems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdxeqEoDXco&list=RD8fox4KabGGE&index=10
...
I am much more moral then Jesus and so are you, you just don't know it.
I can push it even further here and say that practically everything that Jesus did and said can be interpreted as evil.
Mention one thing which you think it is for sure not evil in the life of Jesus and I will find an interpretation that can mean that it is either an exaggeration, impossible or outright evil.
How about this:
He came to this planet, in a tiny corner of the deserted land called Palestine around 2000 years ago and he only helped a very small fraction of the people he met.
This would not be a problem if he wasn't omnipotent, omniscient and could do everything.
Considering the things he could have done to help the people who were suffering, what he did is just pure negligence and showing off.
If you had a convoy of good food extra and you are going to throw it away, would you rather give it to the hungry or just let it rot?
Jesus chose to let the people suffer and die and help only those who were lucky enough to meet him when he is in a good mood.
He could have cured cancer, guess what; it was there and still is there.
Your Jesus is not a good guy, you just wish he is, and the bible just tries to portray him in that way.
"1. We don't kill Sabbath breakers because that only pertained to the ancient nation of Israel. Those were meant for Israel."
So it is OK to kill Sabbath breakers who are Israelite?
Don't you think that it is morally wrong to kill people because they have the "free will" to work on Sunday?
Trust me there is no way to square this circle.
You can run but you cannot hide.
"2. Some Christians do want to meet God sooner rather than later."
Lie, there aren't any live christians that want to die anymore.
"3. That's not entirely true, though it is mostly. Again, no Christian is perfect.
Example?
"Again, no Christian is perfect." Now you are getting it.
"Created sick and demanded to be well."
"4/5. The one thing many don't understand is that Jesus, as any good speaker does, used hyperboles and poetical language to get a point across. When Jesus says, "give everything away", if He meant it in a literal sense, we would have to give away our clothes we are wearing at the moment. But God wants us to cover ourselves (Genesis). OBVIOUSLY Jesus wasn't being literal here."
Are you claiming that you are better then god when communicating with humans? I covered this concept of insulting god whenever you change the literal meaning of what the perfect god said.
Yea Jesus is contradictory not just about clothes, about practically anything in the bible. They checking what he said about rules?
Or about loving or hating everybody.
"Jesus called Himself a door/gate. Does that mean He is a literal door or gate? NO! It's figurative. Speakers can use poetry to make a point. Non-Christians want Him to speak as if he was reading a phonebook."
This is an example where the context actually forces a different interpretation and not just your bias.
One can make any scripture mean what they wish to mean, but the truth is that if a perfect god said this he would not be so stupid when talking to simple fisherman.
In any case he is either not perfect or pure evil.
Choose, I say he is both.
Ilovequestions to Nyarlahotep: "*Sigh* I'm not getting anywhere here haha :)"
Well, to be fair Christians are fairly unlikely to have very many people trying to convert them to some other religion(unless you count the Mormons who are still sorta Christian), so they haven't had much need to much more than memorize apologetic. We, on the other hand, generally have many people trying to do so, so we actually have to develop a strong understanding of Christianity on par with the apologists those people are citing. Most of us, quite literally, have a more thorough understanding of Christianity and the bible than the people we argue with. I didn't say this to demean you or Christianity, nor make us appear superior, but to elucidate that much of the circular reasoning and ad hoc quips used in churches and youth groups are unlikely to pass muster here. Many being former believers of one stripe or another, these kinds of problems and inconsistencies are some of the first we had to deal with on the road to recovering from religion.
You, my friend, did not fare as terribly as most, believe it or not. You expressed yourself well, which gets you 10 cool points automatically, because some of the posts we have dealt with appear to have been typed by someone using their forehead. You did not misrepresent or strawman our position, which also got you some respect, because we experience that a lot. You really didn't do as bad as you think, your arguments may not have been awesomely impenetrable, but at least you were honest in your representation and argumentation for them.
Here's the problem with your post, and it is something I've given a bit a thought to in the recent days.
There are Christians that have committed notorious crimes. There are Atheists that have committed notorious crimes. There are Doctors that have committed notorious crimes. There are Teachers that have committed notorious crimes. There are children that have committed notorious crimes. There are Mothers that have committed notorious crimes.
There is a common denominator behind all these statements, and it can easily be summarized thus: People commit notorious crimes. Regardless of their creed, their title, their profession, or their innocence. We are all a living contradictions, and we constantly hold believes about ourselves and our existence which cannot be reconciled with reality, and psychologists love pointing these out.
Lastly, your premise about Christians wasting Earth's resources, is unfounded. It may true to find a Christian that is very unconscious about the Earth, but his actions are in contradiction with Christian beliefs. I'll leave you with one verse as an example:
"The time will come when God will destroy those who destroy the earth." Rev 11.18.
I left one point out. There irony of your conclusion. You point to Christianity and Religion as a source of evil that should be uprooted, whereas Christianity and Religion point at Human Nature as the source of evil, and one which needs fixing. I do believe the latter has the valid point.
Tell that to the victims of 9/11.
And what do I tell the victims of Columbine?
I'm sure you'll think of something.
Yahweh is a poor example of model behavior considering his murderous history. How anybody can consider him as an example of divine inspiration is beyond me. Feel free to use whatever apologetics you feel necessary to convince yourself otherwise. I don’t have a god I’m ashamed of for committing genocide, killing babies etc. He is your role model, not mine.
That is assuming that either one is the source of ALL evil.
That is assuming that religion was not born from human nature.
The number of atheists as a percentage of their population that wastes earth's resources is miniscule compared to theists.
"The time will come when God will destroy those who destroy the earth." Rev 11.18.
Then god will destroy all theists that claim that climate change is not real :P
Christians have double moral standards. They complain about being persecuted in many countries, claiming religious freedom. But they state not being concerned by the persecutions of muslim Rohingas in Myanmar for example. Why should they care about people who are wrong ?
The world will be a better place when all the Christians, Muslims, and Jews have finally finished killing each other off.
Mit Lufton,
That's the King Asa solution = http://www.thebricktestament.com/king_solomon/executing_unbelievers_brin... 6 pictures
Pages