Many people come on this forum for whatever reason. Some have an agenda, and others just seek conversation. Some seek protection and others advice. Inevitably they all settle into the practice of engaging with the forum. They eventually start threads, making points. The point of this thread is credibility.
Now we know who the trolls are that are here to disrupt and cause chaos. We also know those who are ego driven and just want to see their stream of consciousness publicized. They lack integrity and honesty.
There is a category that is worth noting as, even though they seek honest discourse, they lack credibility automatically because they hold a belief in a myth. Oh, the onset of their post seems credible enough, but at some point, they retort to arguments and insults. They want their original post to be accepted without a challenge. They never have facts to back it up and therefore fall back on the same old excuse of because that's what the bible says (because I said so).
This fosters anger from the original poster and any of their surrogates that want to defend them.
Here is my caution to all of them. If you come on a forum, any forum, be ready to be challenged. Being challenged is a positive response to your post, not a threat. Indeed scientist all garner the scrutiny of other scientists. In fact, they demand it. Just posting a claim that you hold as a belief is worthless. If your claim cannot hold up to scrutiny, don't both posting.
I know that many christian forums are nothing more than rah-rah cheerleading post, one after another, saying god is great, with no proof or substance. That isn't what forums are for. They are for discussion, not to reinforce your insecure beliefs. At least not THIS forum. For example, I am an atheist. I don't expect all atheist to agree with me about almost everything. I expect to defend my position with substantive evidence. I don't expect for members to just lockstep accept everything I post. And I make mistakes, that I have proven over and over again that I can take responsibility for. I don't just blindly assume that I am right. The great thing about being atheist is that you don't have to defend a myth. You don't have to prove something that cannot be proven. This is the HUGE dilemma of theist. They ultimately cannot defend their belief. Therefore their argument on almost, if not every issue, will eventually fail. Because they are automatically disqualified to carry on a logical debate, discussion, or argument.
Subscription Note:
Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.
Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.
Having read some of your other posts, I feel that it is equally important to avoid the use of the voice of dogmatism, as it tends to wreck arguments. I suppose that you feel, in my having said this, that I be so shallow to have simply repeated the content of your post: contrarily, I mean to say the attitude to be held need be more benevolent that that of the debater. The only feasible Kantian attitude I can see in passing is that of the eager but humble student.
When you start out in the position that you believe in a myth that cannot and has not been proved, your position is already failed. If you were to debate and issue involving science, I can't trust you because of your faith. If you debate concerning history, I can't trust you because of your faith. If you debate social issues, I can't trust you based on your faith. Your position is corrupted by your faith. You can't base any argument on facts and logic when you base your whole core being on a myth.
Prove it. Take a position of faith, and then attempt, using what rationality you know, but accounting for the implications of your assumed faith, to debate logically! Let all of us decide whether it makes you the Cretin. For what I see, anyone who can 'do' math can too 'do' logic, and faith, at least in the society in which I live, does not interfere with mathematics.
Why would I EVER take a position of faith? I don't believe in a god. I don't alter history, science or facts to fit a faith based belief.
Reeves, Well stated sir.
M. V. Reeves
I agree wholeheartedly. As for mykcob4’s post above, I could hardly read a line without immediately relating it directly back to the vast majority of his own posts. What irony!
One is hard pressed to find someone who commits the very things he criticizes more than mykcob4.
As to his idea that all theists are immediately disqualified from the conversation not only goes directly against one of the purposes of the existence of Atheist Republic blogs, but is precisely why mykcob4, and those like him have earned for themselves the most horrible reputation.
Mycob4’s logic: = If you believe in something I do not, (like God) it must be a myth. Believing in a myth automatically disqualifies you from conversation. Result = mycob4 desires to surround himself with a very narrow band of supporters and with the sound of his own rhetoric (and even then only if he is inconsistent with his own statement above), of which his previous posts have given us every assurance.
What mykcob4 is saying is precisely this: If you hold to any views other than atheist views, then you are automatically disqualified from voicing any opinion on anything or discussing it in any way for any reason. Effectively, you are sub-human and not worthy of being spoken to.
It is an attitude which conveys clearly that "We pitiful peasants are not worthy to bask in the glory of his intellect."
And it is precisely this self-righteous, pompous, arrogant, egotistical, superior, condescending, ego maniacal attitude that comes through in every one of his posts.
It's what makes his presence on Atheist Republic a turn off to all who would desire polite, analytical discourse, and the blight on the face of Atheism.
While I am not an atheist myself, I have many atheist friends with whom I hold excellent conversations, and enjoy being around. But just knowing that mykcob4 pretends to represent my friend’s beliefs makes me want to defend atheism myself, if for no other reason than to free it from the dark cloud being set upon it by people like mycob4. If I were you, I’d spare yourself the wasted time in attempting to engage his captious comments.
We do not debate only to abandon the confused, but to enlighten them! An attitude of desertion for the hypocrite makes only a hypocrite more: after all, dismissal is the root of hypocrisy.
Indeed!
You, a brand new on site apologeticst, say that about a senier member here? Your not likely to catch much credibility on that.
Also, you've said repeatedly that you will be posting on the forums no more, and yet, still you persist.
Truth stands on its own merits regardless of seniority. His comments are what they, and the nature of their content is self-evident, regardless of how many he has posted, or how long he has been posting them.
(and I said after today I would be posting no more)
Indeed. Perhaps you are to be considered in a different light from the other theists.
Even as mykcob is to be considered in a different light from most atheists (or so I hope). You, however, Xavier, appear to possess the ability to reason quite well, and without the need to insult all who do not agree with you. Kudos!
+ 10 pts. to the both of you, Freeslave and Xavier de Forres. It is unbelievably refreshing to have debaters of your kind at hand.
@ mykcob4
It is my humble opinion, that you have a tendency to view all theists as those you live among: Hardcore Christians that want to push their beliefs on others, push their faith into politics and education, and when they are opposed they claim to be "under attack".
There are a great deal of theists who do not oppose science or try to push their faith into politics. There are even a lot of theists who actively supports the separation of church and state.
I just think that you should start considering that the "other" kind of theists exists as well. Or, simply specify what kind of theists you are talking about: the fundamentalists, the extremes, the religious right.
A very good point. I honestly wasn't expecting anyone to point that out.
@ The Pragmatic
You are right and I know that to be true. I used to host an atheist/liberal forum. On the board was an advisor. The former head of theology at TCU. He was a very intelligent person. He could grasp science and accepted it. He was key to not only bringing perspective but also, advising people who would misrepresent theology. He could quote the Koran and the Bible perfectly. I also had a constitutional lawyer on the board. I wasn't able to secure a NASA scientist, which would have been key.
However, on this board, the theist take person exception to any question of their faith. They won't answer simple questions. They respond to questions with things like, "You just can't grasp the complexity of my post." It's the old condescending tactic that we atheist have experienced for years. And that is troubling.
If I may, and this is just a thought, Religion seems to be a Machiavellian Monster of sorts, using trickery and "cunning"(if you could call it that) to gain followers and political power.