1:6 Show us the straight path,
1:7 The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray
Did Allah's "straight path,'' include the thousand yr old Sunni vs Shi' ite strife?
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I guess so. I hope the Islam people did not misunderstand the Quran and value the rights of humanity not to be controlled by malevolent rules.
Much like xtianity islam calls for cruelty or conversion of those that aren't in their religion.
Ellie Haris
Did Allah's "straight path,'' include the thousand yr old Sunni vs Shi' ite strife?
What did it mean actually...??
I mean does Allah"s ''straight path,'' as mentioned in The Opening, include the Sunni vs Shi'ite war that still rages to this day.
The Shi'ite are not Muslims..
It does not matter against Ellie's point if one side of the conflict is not Muslim his point is did Allah's "straight path" mention this thousand year war. It would however matter agains Ellie's point if both sides were not and the Sunni are Muslim.
However it may be a good time to bring up the Hutus and the Tutsis which both have had an about equal number of Muslims belonging to each group. Did Allah's mention this strife? Did Allah's Straight path mention the Rwandan genocide?
I have been reading a bit of your post for a bit here Maryam and first let me say welcome to the board, it is good to have someone who understands as much as you do about Muslim faith join the board. It makes for better discussion when it comes to the subject. I will tell you right off the bat I am on the A-team and i don't believe in any religions version of God or gods and give an equal amount of credence to all gods.
LOL, it is like when the Protestants say the Catholics aren't Christian.
Maryam, we can deal with the no true muslim topic in another thread. For now though, is the sunni vs shi' ite conflict/conflicts part of Allahs path?
Are the Shia and the Shi'ite differing groups? Because I was under the impression that the Shia Muslims who make up 25-30% of the worlds Muslim population believe they are Muslim.
Hey Zaphod..!!
I am also very glad to join this board because it's first time for me to discuss about my faith with non-Muslims on Inter-net..!!
Well i will do my best to provide the authenticated sources if anyone have doubt.
Here some are blaming me for copy/paste act, I agree that i was doing it but as i said you it is first time for me , i was going all copying and pasting lengthy materials becoz that pages were one of my Favourite so i thought to share here also..lol
As for your other Question i will reply soon as i am Busy with my university schedule..
Guide us to Straight path
As I said earlier that Shia are not Muslims but the reality is that they are Muslims by name Because they believe in Allah and testify that Muhammed, PBUH is the messenger of Allah. But I’m afraid to call them Muslims because they became ignorant.
Guide us to the straight way,
First here we are saying that guide us, to be made steadfast on the straight path so we will not deviate or stray from it.
“The way of those on whom you have bestowed Your grace”
It refers to those who have attained complete guidance, by Allah’s grace from among the Prophets, the most pious who have earned the epithet of siddîq(truthful), the martyrs, and the righteous.
“not the way of those who earn Your anger, nor of those who go astray.”
“Those who earn Allah’s anger”
These are the people who know the truth but abandon it, including the Jews and others
“Those who are astray”
These are the people that abandon the truth out of ignorance, like the Christians and others.
The Christians are astray out of ignorance. Because they started believing in Jesus, PBUH itself.
The worshipers from among the Muslims who go astray who worship Allah in ignorance and in deviant ways resemble the Christians, because they worship Allah in a manner that is misguided and devoid of knowledge.
Shia come’s under “Those who are astray”.
SO in short your saying they are not proper Muslims because they worship Muhammad rather than Allah much like Christians worship Jesus as a part of the trinity, this I did not know, I will have to look into it later, unless you clarify a little.
No, they are not like trinity. They won’t worship like Christians as they worship Jesus, peace be upon him
Linguistically speaking, the term Shi’a means followers or supporters. In a historical context, it means the supporters of Ali ibn Abu Talib, the Prophet's cousin(also Son –in –law), who became the fourth ruler of the Muslim state.
They exaggerate the role of other companions of the Prophet, particularly Ali, who was undoubtedly close to the Prophet, peace be upon him, and a great servant of Islam.
Yet his role should not be blown up so as to make him far superior to everyone else.
Shia are destroying the name of Islam. The shia which I have seen are almost non-practicing, innovating many methods in Islam, following all superstious belief which Islam has strictly prohibited . I'm afraid to call them Muslims.
The Term "Sunni" on the other hand, means from linguistic point of view a follower of a method. The term Sunnah means the method shown by the Prophet, peace be upon him. Within our context, it refers to the majority of Muslims who gave allegiance to the Muslim state, starting with Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman, Ali ( May Allah be pleased with them) and going through the Umayyids, the Abbasids, etc
They do not recognize the Shiite claim that Ali had a stronger claim to succeed the Prophet, peace be upon him, as the ruler of the Muslim state.They maintain that anyone has an equal claim provided that he meets the qualifications required for the post.
I did not mean they are like trinity I am saying they are are similar in the way their roles were trumped up. Jesus of the new testament actually said he was not Christ but people called him Christ anyways. Jesus said he was a descendant of Abraham. though he called god "father" called him our father not his father he also called god our father. but did not claim god to be his father any more than yours or mine. People decided Jesus was the son of god by taking the words out of context they also made up the whole trinity thing as time went on. Jesus in the bible only called god father on a personal level when he was speaking to god directly like in the case when he was in the garden before his crucifixion he never actually claimed to be any more the son of god than anyone else.
Jesus saying he was not Christ is important because Christ means "anointed one" which translates to Messiah so basically most Christians today say he was the son of the Judea God or what Muslims call Allah and choose to totally ignore the scripture. They then gone to ignore it more so and glorify the man more when they mention the Trinity which claims Jesus is God the father and the Holy Spirit. Muslims more accurately call him a Prophet which is closer what Jesus was than what many Christians now claim him to be in the exaggerated glorified form. A prophet is someone who claims to have had divine contact, and to speak for them, serving as an intermediary with humanity, delivering knowledge from the supernatural entity.
So what I was saying is that they exaggerate Jesus's role much like you claim the Shi'a exaggerate the roll of Ali who was an acquaintance of Muhammad who was close to him and became the 4th ruler of the Muslim faith..
Is the sunni vs shi' ite conflict/conflicts part of Allahs path Maryam?
5:8 O ye who believe! Be steadfast witnesses for Allah in equity, and let not hatred of any people seduce you that ye deal not justly. Deal justly, that is nearer to your duty. Observe your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Informed of what ye do.
I await your response Maryam
5:8---- one of the beauitful versE
I'm afraid to call shia Muslims doesn't mean that i will not deal justly with them.
Is the sunni vs shi' ite conflict/conflicts part of Allahs path Maryam?
as for the above question i answered earlier shia come's under "those who are astray"
So just in case anyone is trying to keep up, here where we stand:
T̶h̶e̶ ̶S̶h̶i̶'̶i̶t̶e̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶M̶u̶s̶l̶i̶m̶s̶
t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶M̶u̶s̶l̶i̶m̶s̶
I’m afraid to call them Muslims
------------
Only thing worst than a non-believer is a splitter!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE
Nyarlathotep
“T̶h̶e̶ ̶S̶h̶i̶'̶i̶t̶e̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶M̶u̶s̶l̶i̶m̶s̶”
The Shi'ite are not Muslims.
“t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶M̶u̶s̶l̶i̶m̶s̶
I’m afraid to call them Muslims”
As I said earlier that Shia are not Muslims but the reality is that they are Muslims by name Because they believe in Allah and testify that Muhammed, PBUH is the messenger of Allah. But I’m afraid to call them Muslims because they became ignorant.
PLEASE READ CAREFULLY BEFORE POINTING OUT..!!!!!
"But I’m afraid to call them Muslims because they became ignorant."
By same logic
I am afraid to call my neighbor human because he is so stupid that a monkey can beat him in chess.
Your opinion about people does not change the fact that they are Muslims.
Like priest raping children, they were Christians and nothing can change that.
Their interpretation of Christianity arose from christian roots/beliefs.
Same are The Shi'ite, they arose from the same roots/beliefs so they are Muslims.
I am afraid to call my neighbor human because he is so stupid that a monkey can beat him in chess.
Ofcoz You should be afraid of calling human because a monkey can beat him in chess
They are many Muslims now a days like non-practicing Muslims, Shia Muslims, Ahmadi Muslims etc
but the true or practicing Muslims are the one who are following Islam which was completed by prophet Muhammed, (peace be upon him ) not the one who are following any culture or deviated just because of political issues.
Mayram, yes or no. Is the battle, strife, and bloodshed by Sunni fighting Shi'a the straight and true path Allah laid out for mankind?
5:32 Whoever kills a human being, it is as if he had killed all mankind. Whoever saves the life of one, it is as if he had saved the life of all.
Yes certainly Allah has showed us straight path but the strife, battle and bloodshed by Sunni vs. Shia is not the case
In spite of fighting and killing if the division party stress points of agreement rather than points of disagreement, because what unites Muslims is much greater than what disunites them.
I wish they could understand that the enemies of Islam trying hard to sow the seeds of discord among us, we should try our best to render their attempts futile.
Maryam if this violence and strife is not what Allah wishes then why does this ages of battle still rage?
Ellie
Allah has shown us straight path..Now it's upto us
I'm Muslimah and i can't even hurt someone even if don't like them..i won't hurt them even by my words...that all violence is due 2 ignorance ..lacking knowledge of ISLAM
"but the true or practicing Muslims are the one who are following Islam which was completed by prophet Muhammed"
The is the perfect example of a 'No true Scotsman fallacy'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
As I have said before:
"Your opinion about people does not change the fact that they are Muslims."
For some people it is your idea of "true or practicing Muslims" which is the wrong one.
The 1000+ different denomination of Christianity are still called Christians regardless the difference in ideas between them.
“For some people it is your idea of "true or practicing Muslims" which is the wrong one.”
It’s not the wrong one. The example is not even worth.
“The 1000+ different denomination of Christianity are still called Christians regardless the difference in ideas between them.”
As for the Christians, they are not at all TRUE Christians because no one is following Jesus, peace be upon him . REGARDLESS the difference betwn them doesn’t matter. If they are not following Jesus, peace be upon him then they are not true Christians…
Why are you so hard headed in not wanting to understand a very simple concept.
"If they are not following Jesus, peace be upon him then they are not true Christians…"
What everybody thinks about what Jesus wants is relative to their biased understanding of his message.
All of them are following Jesus
Like all the Muslims are following Mohammed and his teachings.
They have just a different interpretation of what he said.
They cut parts that they do not like sometimes just like you do.
Or twist what is being said to be more of their liking just like you do.
But they are all following his teachings or at least parts of his teachings.
They are all Christians like all Muslims are Muslims.
"It’s not the wrong one."
For some Muslims your interpretation is the wrong one. Yes.
Why can't you see reason and accept the facts.
In their eyes your interpretation is the wrong one.
In your eyes their interpretation is the wrong one.
In my eyes, both your interpretations are the wrong one.
It is a matter of perspective, bias and culture.
Few have the ability to let go of such bias and analyze the texts objectively and in detail.
You are not one of them since you are a Muslim and thus you are biased by definition.
"All of them are following Jesus"
I Don't think so..No one is following Jesus, peace be upon him in Christianity as far i know
In fact the true Muslims are the followers of Jesus, peace be upon him.
"They cut parts that they do not like sometimes just like you do.
Or twist what is being said to be more of their liking just like you do."
what i want 2 say you now a days people often follow only some part because it is pleasing to them and neglecting other part..
that's why em saying that they are not true one either christians or Muslims. but em not one of them and the true Muslims who are following the true teachings of Islam
"For some Muslims your interpretation is the wrong one. Yes.
Why can't you see reason and accept the facts.
In their eyes your interpretation is the wrong one.
In your eyes their interpretation is the wrong one."
What you said above is exactly right. Due to political issues or may be any culture they became ignorant but they are still Muslims by Names. or Muslims who lacks knowledge of islam...but they are not true Muslims...
"Few have the ability to let go of such bias and analyze the texts objectively and in detail.
You are not one of them since you are a Muslim and thus you are biased by definition."
Iam not one of them becoz I am Muslim.....????
"Iam not one of them becoz I am Muslim.....????"
Yes, you cannot be unbiased because you have faith in some belief.
As long as you believe, you have a conclusion on a subject.
This is what bias is all about, having a conclusion on something makes you biased towards that conclusion.
Only when you don't believe something you can analyze the evidence or historical texts objectively.
You have to start from the point of saying;
"Where does the evidence gonna lead me?"
NOT:
The Koran is the word of GOD and thus is right by definition, so "Due to political issues or may be any culture they became ignorant "
You are a Muslim thus your own faith will not allow you to be objective at all and it is displayed in very post you make.
You are usually unreasonable and illogical because of it.
"What you said above is exactly right. Due to political issues or may be any culture they became ignorant but they are still Muslims by Names. or Muslims who lacks knowledge of islam...but they are not true Muslims..."
First you say I am right and then you repeat the same mistake again in the same sentence:
"Muslims by Names. or Muslims who lacks knowledge of Islam"
It is in your eyes that you are viewing this, not because it is true.
Everything that disagrees with your interpretation is wrong. This is BIAS
That was my point.
Your own interpretation is a biased interpretation that most of it comes from your faith and your childhood upbringing.
People with a different faith and different upbringing will have their own interpretation, with their own bias.
The only people with an unbiased interpretation are the ones that have no faith and thus CAN be objective.
They are the ones that have a chance at finding the truth.
It doesn't mean that they cannot be biased but have less chances of being biased then you and all the theists, since they have 1 less factor that increases their bias.
“Yes, you cannot be unbiased because you have faith in some belief.
As long as you believe, you have a conclusion on a subject.
This is what bias is all about, having a conclusion on something makes you biased towards that conclusion.”
Oh so you are saying that I cannot be unbiased just because I have faith in some belief
My faith taught me justice so how can you say that..??
“You are a Muslim thus your own faith will not allow you to be objective at all and it is displayed in very post you make.
You are usually unreasonable and illogical because of it.”
I am Muslim and my own faith allow me 2 understand things, allow me 2 seek knowledge so that I may understand everything logically.
It’s not copied from Christianity as you often say in other post
“In their eyes your interpretation is the wrong one.
In your eyes their interpretation is the wrong one”
What u said above I said that it was right…only the above 2 lines.
I’m not saying about my own interpretation here but am talking about Truth here…as I’m aware of my own faith and Christianity
“It is in your eyes that you are viewing this, not because it is true.”
In my eyes I know what is true Islam, what is true Christianity. So am just saying that people made various sects according to their pleasing beliefs. But the one who is still on the same message, the Truth. They are only True Muslims. That’s it..!!
“Everything that disagrees with your interpretation is wrong. This is BIAS
that was my point.”
Yes exactly it is Bias if I say that everything that disagrees with my interpretation but this is not the case here...say for example if any non-Muslim who is practicing their own faith n I'm aware of their faith I can easily conclude that whether he/she is a true follower or not..that’s it…I am just saying here who are the true followers…
I’m not saying about my interpretation...i’m saying about TRUTH.
“Your own interpretation is a biased interpretation that most of it comes from your faith and your childhood upbringing.”
My interpretation is unbiased because am talking about Truth here, not the one which is following... as for my childhood upbringing it doesn’t mean that em following my faith blindly…
I have logical answer for my each n every belief. But you cannot understand it becoz in your eyes, I’m wrong
“The only people with an unbiased interpretation are the ones that have no faith and thus CAN be objective.
They are the ones that have a chance at finding the truth.”
In my eyes, your interpretation is wrong
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