Hello ,I briefly mentioned the secrets of Fatima in one of my former posts but I did not discuss it in detail which is the reason for this thread.
Now the first 2 secrets were supposedly spoken by the virgin in 1917 but was written in the upcoming decades and was not published until hitler betrayed the soviet union in 1941
The first secret is a pretty generic vision of hell,it is as follows
”Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror."
The second secret is a prophecy about ww2 and the soviet union.
"You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world"
Now there is one major problem with this prophecy which is that Pius XI was not pope in 1917, but died in February of 1939, seven months before the outbreak of World War II.
Also note that it was published after Hitler declared war on Russia. so any event before that does not count. other than that it is pretty accurate on Russia since most wars in the second half of the 20th century was mostly over communism and the soviet union. whether the world entered a period of peace is debatable after the collapse is debatable. at a brighter not you can apparently be saved when you go to hell.
The 3rd secret is very controversial since many belief it to be a forgery.
After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!' And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father.' Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God.
So what do you think of them?, they were also one of the bedrocks of my faith.
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No not this again! Please stop. It wasn't a miracle.
I scanned through this quickly, so forgive me if I missed something. First time for me hearing about the "secrets of fatima"
Where do you stand now Jacob Cornelius? Are you Atheist? Unsure? Religious? This post does not clarify the position you take now. (Perhaps on purpose.) Which is fine.
After my brief scan, supposedly documents released by russia in 1941 talks of virgin Fatima making prophecies back in 1917. Prophecies of events that occurred before the "release to general public via betrayal" in 1941. Giving us no way to verify that instead of being a prophecy, this information released could just be simple history portrayed as prophecy.
Maybe I read it wrong in my brief scan but, what is to stop me, today, writing that I made a prophecy that Donald Trump will be president way back in 1986 30 years prior?
But my prophecy was hidden away by bad guys until today, say, they uh held a gun to my head the last 30 years, but just today that person holding the gun died of a heart attack!
Amusingly, the simpsons tv show had an episode that Trump would be president over a decade ago. OMG! the writers of the Simpsons are prophetic! This is evidence the the Simpsons tv show as whole should be worshipped, and we should all follow the sayings of the great god Homer Simpson! With his bratty skateboard riding son Bart Simpson, Bart simpson saves us with his witty "don't have a cow man" quotes!
No, he is talking about the Portuguese girls that supposedly saw the virgin mary and predicted the end of the 1st world war. We went over this extensively. It wasn't a miracle. There is No evidence that anyone credible saw anything, and everyone at the time the war was coming to an end.
Thanks for the correction, I am still relatively new and have not encountered this particular argument before. I suppose since religions are in the business of lying to people they will always make up something new and point to it and say: "here's proof of god!" All you sheep that believe in this crap already know better than to fact check!"
Then the science/atheist/agnostics intellectual group points out all the glaring flaws, but the lie has already done it's work. People that begin to question all the ridiculous crap that is religion is reassured that their imaginary god is real. Then as that particular lie begins to lose effectiveness, they come up with another. The whole cycle is scary effective for people that have been indoctrinated since they were kids by "authority figures" like their parents and priest, and teachers in catholic schools.
The siren song continues on for people trained to think emotionally instead of logically.
Well i did mention that I do not count the events that happened before 1941. however it still predicted that the soviet union will spread its Error (I am assuming its communism) across the world which it Did and that it will fail at the end and that Russia would be converted.
The vision of hell resembles the description of the Islamic hell.
Russia is becoming more openly Christian this century.
If the vision is right then the Bible is wrong.
And that is the key to "good" prophecy. Kept it as vague as possible, let the listener (in the future) fill in the details after the listener already knows what happened. If it is vague enough, a believer will always be able to make it fit.
Yes when I think about it if that exact same thing could have also be said about Hitler and it would also be correct. Question were there any communist country's beside Russia by 1941?
Kind of; one example might be East Poland (depends on how you look at it). But remember: the communism part comes from you, not the prophecy.
Answer China! If you don't count nations but large populations: USA, Italy, United Kingdom, Most of Europe, A large amount of East Asia, More than 50% of India, Almost all of Greece, about 1/3 of Germany. Communism came into being in 1917 but was considered by vast amounts of people before that time. Marx published the Communist Manifesto in February of 1848. It was an immediate best-seller worldwide. Mexico came close to being the first nation to become communist. South America had three forms of ideology outside the government there and was popular in the populace. Communist was #1, Fascism was #2 and democracy was #3 throughout the continent. The only continent that communism did not make significant inroads into was Africa, and that is because NO political ideology carried very much weight there.
Thank you Mykcob4. However the girl who wrote the prophecy was at that time an Isolated Nun So how could she predict so accurately the second half of the 20th century. Communism spread around the world, there were many wars, the pope was almost assassinated and Russia converted at the end sort of. They have an big industry of child porn though.
You can prove she was a nun but not that she was totally isolated. I doubt very much that anyone was that isolated. Also, it is common for predictions to be nonspecific as in this case. that allows anyone to attribute anything to those predictions, which is the case here. She didn't predict anything.
The biggest porn industry has always been in the USA. The largest concentration of sexual businesses coincides with the largest concentration of churches.
Russia didn't have a porn industry to speak of until the fall of the Soviet Union.
Since I have replied I have gained some new Information. Firstly there were already wars over communism by 1942 like Mongolia and some other eastern regions Like china and Spain. She was also apparently a big supporter of Hitler. Perhaps she thought if Hitler would conquer Russia her prophecy would be correct. after the pope give Russia to Marry or something.
So Jacob, please answer this question.
Does your fear and hatred of communism extend to the point that you are in some form a fascist or a Nazi? I strongly suspect that to be the case. You can be what you want but please reveal the truth.
Now answer this question. Does your fascism (nazi0 drive you to find evidence of miracles that support your political agenda as did the Nazi's did in justifying their war crimes? I strong suspect that it does.
Is your picture of Nelson Mandella a cover to hide your real agenda? I bet that is true.
O come on you must be joking. I am very sympathetic to communism for the most part but I must ask why do you expect me to be a fascist. the reason I pointed it out was exactly to find a possible political reason for what the prophecy states rather than a supernatural one.
It just seemed that you slanted hard right.
the prophecy was not a prophecy. It was an attention seeking ploy which worked.
Please stop posting this nonsense. Instead of telling what your religious dogma tells you about fatima, please provide proof or at least good evidence that god or gods exist.
@JacobCorneluis: Sorry, your search for the irrefutable miracle doesn't interest me. You may prefer to do a search of this type with the intellectuals of your parish.
@JacobCornelious: No virgin human ever gave birth. No one alive 2000 years ago is alive now and sending messages to teenage girls. Grow up!
I can agree with the OP's lengthy post if I remove Holy Father and in its place insert Holy Fuhrer, to give it some resemblance of logic.
What is more likely ? An imaginary vestal virgin appeared to a nun 1917 and predicted that Pope Priapus the XI would reign in 1922 or people are fucking liars?