I was just doing my homework then a question came out.
What is the state of religion in schools around the world ?
In France there has been a big scholar reform recently.
One of the change was the addition of a new subject for the 2 grades before Baccalaureate : "science education".
I am part of the first generation to try this out.
The thema of the currently is "the shape of the Earth", and a portion of the lesson was about the concept of dogma.
Finding "dogma" here surprised me, I didn't think we would study it before philosophy courses next year...
(I didn't learn about dogma with this lesson btw)
The exercise I pinned with the message asks you explicitely to criticize Luther's argument against heliocentrism, and it is expected that you explain that an argument based on scriptures and faith is not valid.
How was your scolarship ? Were your studies influenced by religion or not ?
How are doing the schools in your country now ? (or state if the school program is not decided at the federal level)
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I homeschool. My boys prefer it. My oldest is your age. Our public school choice is Catholic. That’s it. Catholic. And the “spiritual” theme is run through. In grade 2 they went to the Catholic church as a “field trip”... I’ve always let my boys decide their own “religious” curiosities...
The homeschool is “Protestant” (ironic, eh - no fuckin secular education) so I “parent direct”...meaning I have full discretion over what the boys learn.
I have no complaints working with the school and education system (they always include a bible in my school materials, unrequested) - so they’ve “guessed” that I’m a non believer.
Of course religion in a historical context is discussed, as is politics, etc. I use their science materials as well as some of my own choosing.
I live in Canada, and our school system is very secular. Religion stops at the school doors. I have never come close to the type of topic you are submitting. That is philosophy controlled by religion, a very weird dynamic.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but the topic is Cusanus', docta ignorantia, which means that since mankind can not grasp the infinity of a deity through rational knowledge, the limits of science need to be passed by means of speculation.
I reject the "docta ignorantia" because it assumes limitations on our ability to learn and discover. History has proven the opposite. Heck, we recently imaged a black hole.
The advancements of science have proven "docta ignorantia" wrong.
Interesting topic.
Oh David...you fuckin’ easterners!!!! :)
You pulled a “Trudeau”!!! (For those outside our country, on our 150 yr anniversary “Alberta” was forgotten)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VwSx5A49Fas
I’m from Alberta. My area, does not have a “secular” option ... unless you mean “just the educational materials”. As seen by many a religious poster, people “sneak” in their doctrine (incl teachers) ... the “bias” out here is “religious”.
And “our” educational textbooks do include such things as pic posted.
Whitefire13 corrected me, I was wrong to assume that my experiences in school were universal to all Canadians.
My apologies, how can anyone forget Alberta?
I believe that my assumption stemmed from my experience when I was a child in Alberta for four years. I lived on a military base, and all Canadian military bases, regardless of location, all practiced the Ontario educational standard.
David - it was a culture shock for me too! I was raised in the BC educational system and it was secular (challenged my JW mind)
Here, it’s the opposite - yet as a paradox, I find locally, the people in general more “open minded” and accepting of others.
Weird. Unless, I’m just known as the “unbeliever” and I’m being “love bombed”
... but then they’re doing it locally to gays, transgendered, Muslims .... because my experience in BC was the “the gays in school were avoided and teased”
AND the East Indians were “curry eaters” - lots of divisive talk, attitudes and actions .... mind you, again that experience was around 35 yrs ago and were based on the Okanagan and Vancouver areas
...because I was a JW, I thought it was my “spirituality” that made me more accepting and thought it was “Satan’s divisive spirit” infecting those around me....
@David
(Docta ignorentia was just the book from which the extract was)
//1- why it is bullshit//
So I searched docta ignorentia and found it was solely depending on gosh.
The gosh is not proven, therefore docta ignorentia should not be believed. (is "wrong")
//2- but we can't prove it wrong//
There are limitations to knowledge, we can't be certain about the truth of anything that refers to reality.
However, I don't know any limitation to accessible knowledge, unless time and the number of scientists maybe.
To prove there is absolutely no limitation to what we can know, you have to prove for every imaginable limitation that it does not exist.
That's a negative statement, just like "there is no god".
@Raphael
I was taught (if you'll excuse the expression) by the De La Salle Brothers at their local academy of applied brutality. So I guess you would have to say there was a rather wide religious road going right through that experience.
Our State public schools are very secular as far as I know. They seem to reflect the broad social values of adults in our state . However, THE top school is "St Peter's College" ,which is Anglican/Episcopalian. (aka Catholic lite)
A mate of mine sent his three kids to St Peter's (fees start at $14000 pa and go to $25000 pa) .Two of 'em survived pretty much unreligified. The third, one of twins, became a born againie. I'm happy to be able to report the other twin has remained sane,and is now a lawyer.
--my mate was an atheist until he died last year. He had told the born againie twin he didn't want her praying over him at any time, but most especially at his funeral. So of course she ignored that at the funeral. Felt like smacking her.
Hence, I only ever go to funerals if I know and respect at least one member of the family. That because (imo) funerals are for the living.What with the guest of honour being dead and all. There ARE of course exceptions. My mother left three pages of written instructions for her funeral last year. (at one month short of her 93rd birthday) Even left enough cash for a decent wake.
I have booked a local telephone booth for my funeral.
@Cranky, yes State public schools are still very secular, my experience and those of my two children (now adults). In my time our all male student high school had a few christian teachers and students (like me).
However all State school students were required to attend one weekly 40 minute class called Religious Education where classes were divided into denominations and serviced by local clergy who offered little education. I used to go to different denomination classes each week which included Catholics and Jews. I was considered insane by my pagan peers and just stupid by my teachers. But in time I learned that my absence in one class made people think I was in another and when I was not in the mood to broaden my ecumenical knowledge I would head off to the local milk bar for a burger and was never found out.
These classes were largely treated with bored derision and only suffered because of threats of detention for misbehaviour. I was a bright little Christian boy at the time and frequently the butt of unkind jokes which I confidently knew my god would avenge mightily, affording me greatly satisfying anticipated schadenfreude.
This telephone booth has something to do with your fear of being buried alive, yes? Whats the number? I'll give you a call just to check.
@Grinseed
"This telephone booth has something to do with your fear of being buried alive, yes? Whats the number? I'll give you a call just to check."
Nah mate, I'm being cremated.
The telephone booth comment was to reflect the expected number of mourners.
I saw a Youtube clip recently about a custom in 18th and 19th centuries. Thought to have been caused by cholera epidemics;'safety coffins' . People had a long cord attached to their person. The cord was attached to a bell on the surface.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bVFtFD7uos
"The telephone booth comment was to reflect the expected number of mourners."
What? No dancing at your wake?
@Grinseed
"What? No dancing at your wake?"
Possibly on the coffin before the 3 minute service. To make sure I'm dead.
I think you're confusing a wake and a craic. True enough, a decent wake will often become a craic, lasting several days,with police attending. My family is more traditional ; we all get pissed and fight. Except me, because I don't drink. I do try to leave before fist blood. In recent years I simply stopped going to wakes.
I've found there are few more tedious experiences than being the only sober person in a room full of drunks. Until people start coming over all unnecessary. Then it's neither tedious nor entertaining.
Cranks - a telephone booth is fine!
I’m a self-isolationist by choice and I limit my social circle. I expect, upon my death ONLY my boys and their “loved” ones to remember me.
I have no need for a service, burial or a piece of paper “advertising” who I was... not as though any of it is “wrong”, I just personally don’t have a need for any of it (if the living, my boys, have a need to do it for me - they can)...
From what I understand, their plan is to ignore my “cremation” instruction, have me “stuffed” and a “Soundbox with a string”. When they need my advice they’ll pull the string...
***my normal facial expression is “resting bitch face” **** The box will say one or two common phrases...
“Jesus fuckin’Christ...”. OR
“What the fuck?!?!?...”
@Whitefire
Yup, you get it.
I made the same comment to my younger brother recently . Mr tact-to-the-toenails replied " Mate, why do you give a fuck? You'll be dead"
He's right.
I've lived alone for 25 years. Divorced, no kids. 3 siblings, one idiot cousin I will probably outlive . One friend I see weekly and I belong to a Mens group and a discussion group .Have outlived 5 at the mens group so far. It's OK, we get new members..
I paint. A lot and poorly, but I think a few aren't too bad. I seldom show anyone my work.
The way my 3 sibs still drink,I may outlive them all. Then my estate goes to 2 nephews. They'd be thrilled..
My favourite headstone is Spike Milligan's ; "I told you I was ill" (In Gaelic)
On a more serious note... my guys know I would prefer cremation.
I want a “gazebo” made with flowers and benches and such. It’s to be portable (so whoever can have or move it).
They can toss my ashes on my land or keep them in a urn... but just a small plaque on the inner side of the gabebo
“Jesus fuckin’Christ was here!”
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@raphael
No issues here.
I am from a secular country, thank god.
:P
doG ...where are you in general?!? Either I missed it or forgot or you’ve never said-
@Misspuggleton
Never said.
Okey - sorry .... no need :)
You don't have to be sorry. As a matter of fact...thanks for the respect. :)
@doG
The curious detective in me says:
Eithir UK, NZ, or Australia. Or the Nordic countries, (many of them are quite fluent english as well.)
I am probably wrong, but purely statistically, those are the most likely places :)
Or you could be a transplant, living in China, or Hong Kong or something like that.
@logic
OK.
Ohh! Oklahoma? Would of never guessed!
;)