A wonderful lecture if you think you have the time to watch it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_fkpZSnz2I
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@Cog
Dr Irving Finkel a stereotypical brilliant eccentric English academic. Seems to spend a lot of time in the basement of the British Museum .His speciality is cuneiform,which he can read. He's always worth watching. Haven't seen this clip, so thanks.
Dr Finkel is a hero of mine. In this video I loved the reason why the workers all wanted to have a selfie taken with him.
Glad you liked it. It was my first time meeting the gentleman and I love his presentation style. Reminds me of Richard Fyenman: There is depth and perspective to the silliness. I love it.
Finally had a chance to watch it. The man is captivating, and I enjoyed his style of humor. Plus, I had never heard of boats like that, so it was fascinating seeing the concept being built on that large a scale. Not to mention a different Noah's Ark story being found in writings of another ancient culture.
@Tin Man
" Not to mention a different Noah's Ark story being found in writings of another ancient culture."
Just so.
About 50 years ago I had a brilliant but eccentric**friend. He was writing an erudite book showing god was an alien***. During his research he found that cultures all over the world have flood myths.
His reasoning was that until quite modern times people had little understanding of the size of the earth. Thus, when there was a flood and they could see only water from their tallest available point, they reasoned that the entire world was flooded .
Still makes sense to me. After all, he was eccentric,not stupid
*****************************************************************************************************
**in this context 'eccentric' means a fruitcake with money.
*** in the early 1970's, such books had their very own genre. Kicked off by an outrageous pathological liar called Erich Von Daniken and his book "Chariots of The Gods".
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Bloke gets a flat tire, right outside the local asylum. As he's changing the tire, the nuts roll away down a storm drain. He swears.
Looks up and and sees a wild eyed man staring at him from in the grounds of the asylum. The bloke says ;" Take a nut from each of the three remaining wheels and attach it to the fourth wheel. That will easily last long enough until you can get to a garage."
Bloke says: "That's fantastic! Thanks mate!"
Inmate says " No worries. Simple problem; I'm crazy not stupid"
I wonder , does that explanation hold true for the various apologists we get here? Nah, many of 'em are both. The rest are probably sane but wilfully pig ignorant
Cranks - I would lean more towards the proposal that aliens influenced mankind then god - not “believe” either, but an argument could be made for aliens that is more logical (IMO) - however, I’ve never tried with the alien thing (and the history channel “ancient aliens” is shit) ... but “thought candy-wise” and a youthful life spent watching Star Trek/voyager/generations - ahhhh aliens, AI, replicators, transporters, time anomalies-
@White
In the early 1970's there was no doubt in my mind that we had been visited by aliens.
What initially convinced me were passages in the Rig Veda about 'The War of the triple cities', "Indira's dart" and especially 'flying vimanas' described as machines, not magic. The effcts of Indira's dart sounded awfully like a description of nuclear weapons.
Then there was the "Colombian Gold Exhibition" Pre Columbian. Featuring several small gold objects ( a couple of inches). described as stylised birds, they looked very much like jet planes.
These two examples are classic "argument from ignorance .Viz" I lack the imagination, knowledge or intelligence to come up with a better, more likely explanation.Therefore god/aliens did it"
A very common error because we are 'culture trapped' .We instinctively try to make the unknown/strange fit into our world view an experience. Using Occam's razor, the jet planes become stylised birds. No reason to think otherwise except for a passing similarity.
As for the Rig Veda. I don't know. That I don't know doesn't mean god/aliens did it. It just means I don't know.
A couple of other points:
I have often wondered why aliens advanced enough to cover the distances involved would WANT to come here? We haven't even learned to stop killing each other.
PLUS why do people insist so much that such beings must be benign?. They seem to be expecting Vulcans. For all we know, they might be the Borg or Cardassians.
Could it be likely we're just a known planet or solar system to another race, and our existence is protected and monitored through their own regulations and laws, where they may explore and take samples from a civilization/solar system that said civilization is wanting to see but not willing to see it?
Or even a race that acknowledged a solar system and planet and how it works, planted seeds to the dish "in their image and likeness", and somewhere it just isn't working out or we're slowly getting there?
@Silly Bill E.
Welcome.
Anything's possible. Not sure how probable is your scenario.
I prefer Occam's razor and keeping it simple. I think the most likely explanations, in order of what I think is most likely.:
(1) Superior, alien civilisations just don't know about us. Why should they?
(2) We're too far away for them to bother. I think the nearest planetary system to us is Alpha Centauri, and that's over 4 light years away. To be practicable to visit us I think they would need a faster than light system of travel. Our scientists think that's unlikely as far as I know.
(3) They are aware and can't be bothered because we have nothing to offer them.
In considering such things, we make some unsupported assumptions about any putative life forms. The most egregious is assuming that they share at t least some of our qualities, such as our innate curiosity or say similar moral, economic and political systems. Perhaps the most dangerous assumption is that such beings will be benign. We have no reason to make such an assumption.
Having said all that,it is my fantasy that beings not unlike Star Trek's Vulcan will land their ship in the parking area at my local shopping centre,and that I will be alive to see it. I ain't holding my breath.
@White
In the early 1970's there was no doubt in my mind that we had been visited by aliens.
What initially convinced me were passages in the Rig Veda about 'The War of the triple cities', 'Indira's dart' and especially 'flying vimanas' described as machines, not magic. The effects of Indira's dart sounded awfully like a description of nuclear weapons.
Then there was the "Colombian Gold Exhibition" Pre Columbian. Featuring several small gold objects ( a couple of inches). described as stylised birds, they looked very much like jet planes to me.
These two examples are classic argument from ignorance .Viz " I lack the imagination, knowledge or intelligence to come up with a better, more likely explanation. Therefore god/aliens did it"
A very common error because we are 'culture trapped' .We instinctively try to make the unknown/strange fit into our world view and experience. Using Occam's razor, the jet planes become stylised birds. No reason to think otherwise except for a passing similarity.
As for the Rig Veda. I don't know. That I don't know doesn't mean god/aliens did it. It just means I don't know.
A couple of other points:
I have often wondered why aliens advanced enough to cover the distances involved would WANT to come here? We haven't even learned to stop killing each other.
PLUS why do people insist so much that such beings must be benign?. They seem to be expecting Vulcans. For all we know, they might be the Borg or Cardassians.
Yes... the “translation” years ago of the Sumerian tablets (introduced to me by a friend) - can you guess which one? LOL.
However there are things we don’t know - the curiosity and mystery ...
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/thedanispo...
There are areas in India, and ancient descriptions (if I’m remembering right) of what could be described as an atomic event (however credited to aliens/gods?) ...
Sometimes I imagine that we are just a “restart of a previous civilizations” ...
don’t buy into it, but it does toss and bump every so often in my mind...
I don’t think “aliens” if they did come here would have “our” best interests at heart. If they are advanced enough, what do they care? (how often have you trekked to visit tribes - maybe read or watch an interesting documentary, sure, but do you really care). Nature shows - I could see them making some quick study and classification - like we do we other species (but then those species are useful to our knowledge and self interest)...
How would our science behave if say “form of life” is found in Europa (that might give us some eventual ideas how we may have been interacted with) ...
And yah, if “life” out “there” follows the same life/specie survival pattern as it does on earth - we may want to keep quiet in space until we understand the “environment” better.
Luckily (?) we haven’t come across anything yet...
@Whitefire13
"I don’t think “aliens” if they did come here would have “our” best interests at heart."
I often think, What if we are the alien?
Someday, if the human race is advanced enough, capable to travel million light years away to another potentially inhabitable planet
I would imagine, what would i do, if i'm one of the expedition crew
I imagined i would do pretty basic things
1. Check the water purity, temperature and oxygen level.
2. Take a sample from the soil, nearby plant / trees. To make sure they're edible
3. Capture the "Animals", are they carbon based? Determining their intellectual level shouldn't be a problem.
4. A bit of stake out to make sure human could co-exist with the planet's natives
I would never thought to abduct a farmer just to probe his ass..
@FreakyGin Re: "I would never thought to abduct a farmer just to probe his ass.."
Wow... Seriously?.... *skeptical look*.... That is one of the very FIRST things that should be done upon visiting an inhabited planet. Obviously you do not have what it takes to be an intrepid explorer of other worlds. So sad.... *shaking head in dismay*....
LOL
Actually, Freakygin, “having ones ass probed” can provide a lot of information :)
Even, on the surface of “getting a stool sample”
and analyzing it... heheehehhh. “Anal -y -zing”
"There are areas in India, and ancient descriptions (if I’m remembering right) of what could be described as an atomic event (however credited to aliens/gods?) ..."
Or should that ancient indian 'atomic event' be attributed to an asteroid strike, like the Tunguska event 1908 in Siberia? The photos look pretty much like an atomic event. Or the asteroid that wiped out all the Barney the Dinosaurs and created the Gulf of Mexico.
Carl Sagan said if there was intelligent life out there, sufficiently advanced in science and technology, the first signals they would receive from Earth, would likely be episodes of the zany "I Love Lucy" shows which I would hope might deter any sentient lifeforms even wanting to visit much less invade. Then again if they get a load of "Independence Day" or "Space Quest" they just might declare the entire Milky Way off limits indefinitely...I dont think there's anyone out there despite what the Drake Equation suggests.
Grinseed... yah, I thought of it...I like rabbit holes too, but always keep my feet firmly planted!
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/davidbressan/2019/06/29...
...and....
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.space.com/amp/yellow-egyptian-glass-made...
Play with the “bubble”, enjoy the fine rainbow colours while it floats, before you pop it or it “bursts”. ;)
My own curious nature is reflected back to me through the young’uns - they get exposed to all sorts of theories, rabbit holes, speculations, ghosts/aliens/big foot etc etc.
It’s ALL out there and this generation has to sift through it all. It’s crazy!!!!!
And there’s no time to “think” before another one is trotted out ...
I’ve “explored” it all - get them to
Fall back to “what is more likely”; “what is their standard of evidence”...
@cranky47: I have often wondered why aliens advanced enough to cover the distances involved
That's a valid point. Movies like "Independence Day" have aliens coming here to steal our resources, but the universe is pretty much the same wherever you go. If you want iron, etc., you're going to find plenty of it, and any other element, in just about any solar system. So there's really no need to spend decades crossing interstellar space in search of resources or lebensraum.
@ Cog
Brilliant man, great lecture....Thanks!
There is a nice youtube channel called "Digital Hammurabi" which provides a lot of relevant background material on the mesopotamian milleau of the bible. They have content about the various Akkadian creation myths.
For what it's worth, they also have a series on Learning Ancient Sumerian. If you're looking for something entirely different, this might be it.
Great lecture, and I find Dr Finkle conveyed facts very well, while interspersed with humor.
I saw that on TV a few years ago, and it helped me understand the flood myth better, and led me to a better understanding of the lies told in the bible.
@David
"----and led me to a better understanding of the lies told in the bible."
Myths only become lies when people forget they're myths.