Disclaimer- I am not miracle researching! I am safe and stable ! I grew up in a community with a large Mexican population so I am already familiar with this story and never once tool or as real! This was inspired by Joy.
So the story of our lady of Guadalupe says that a native, Juan Diego, had a vision of Mary on a hill, told his bishop , who told him to bring him a sign. Juan gathered up roses that shouldn't be blooming in the winter in his cloak, which magically took on the image of the virgin. The image is perfect and can't be explained by science! Wow, amazing!
Cept it's all bullshit.
For one, there's no record of this story as it happened. The bishop never wrote about it.
2, as far back as the early commission in the 1600s, it was known not only that this was a painting, but they knew who painted it.
Modern artists have even pointed out the anatomical flaws and stylizations.
3, there's no proof Juan Diego ever even existed, but boy, that didn't stop the church from beginning the canonization process
This is the /only/ approved Marian apparition before 1830. Makes you wonder about the state of the post atheist movement church from the late 18th century and it's desperation to keep the masses.
I am an artist myself. As soon as I heard this story as a kid and saw the image, my only thought was, well i could do that. When they tried to tell me no human artist could ever paint this my only thought was, woe, you have low standards!
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Oh yeah, we see that claim around here all the time, in one form or another: hand-waving that anything they don't like, must be impossible.
Mikhael - You need some new stories to reference in your life. Pick up the book, ZEN FLESH, ZEN BONES and see if you can not add something else to your repertoire.
Mikhael... it took me years to deprogram myself. Sounds to me like you are in that process.
I remember the first time I looked up the “blood issue” on the internet. This is a doctrine I would have died for (and almost did). The physical and mental reaction I had when I first started to read outside material was so unexpected and overwhelming I stopped. I didn’t return to that particular doctrine until I had came to the conclusion that the bible was just an old book written by ancient men with their own agendas.
@Whitefield
I can't imagine growing up with a doctrine that could so readily produce martyrs. Years ago I read a memoir called "I'm perfect, you're doomed" written by an ex JW, and she talks about reading stories as a child of other JW children who died for their belief. I was still Catholic at the time, and it shook me, thinking of little kids without a voice
Orwell called that Crimestop.
Some theist cooks up a wild story, it spreads like wildfire. Experts debunk that story, few listen. That is one major problem, that there is a wild imbalance between the claim and the establishment of what is really true.
Dying for one’s beliefs don’t make them true. It just means the believer believes it’s true.
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