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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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just so you know;
Even if by some miracle you manage to prove that I am biased in my conclusions and that I am against woman in some way.
It just does not help your case at all.
You failed to show any kind of woman discrimination in general and ignored all the points I raised.
Up until now you lost every single argument so you are trying to character assassinate me which is not working either.
Jeff, I've claimed nothing about you, that I can not back up with your own comments
Again my own comments to do not support your ridiculous claims.
I think by now everybody knows that I disagree with your claims.
“For the male: Have you ever asked for feedback? Have you ever been called out on gender-discriminatory behavior? If so, what did you do, and how did you change (if you did)?”
“For the female forum contributors: Do you have a personal experience of gender discrimination, and would you share it? How has your experience changed how you view the free-thinking movement?”
Ahhh…….playing the victim card? Why did you not also ask if the female forum were ever called out on “gender-discriminatory behavior”? Do I suspect a bias in your questioning? Why not ask both genders both questions? What happened to equality?
Some interesting videos addressing feminists in the atheist community:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Thunderf00t
The context of the conversation is discrimination against women in a male-centric society; how is it unfair to question in that line of enquiry?
Discrimination against men is real. The point of this thread, however, is to challenge the community to examine systemic discrimination against women.
Additionally, your attempt to demean people who show concern about gender equality, or accusing someone of using "the victim card" is itself a form of microagression.
"3. microinvalidations: disconfirming messages
• exclude, negate, or dismiss the thoughts, feelings, or
experiences of certain groups
• may be most damaging form of the three microaggressions"
http://www.unh.edu/sites/www.unh.edu/files/departments/affirmative_actio...
Are you kidding me? From the assertion that society is a “male-centric” society?! Do you think divorce courts are “male-centric” in their awards of alimony and child custody?. The fact that universities cater to women resulting in male college students being the minority’; is that a result of society being “male-centric”? The fact that women can make false rape accusations at colleges ruining men’s futures with no consequences when the woman is proven wrong?
You do not want to examine discrimination of women by considering a comprehensive assessment of the problem. What you want to do is hypocritically exclude, negate, and dismiss the thoughts, feelings, and experiences of men to promote your narrative of what you want the problem to be contrary to reality.
Well put ImFree, unlike you he is not free from his bias of feminist propaganda.
Doesn't even care to support any of his claims and dismisses anything we presented to him.
Start a thread about it, and I will comment.
Don't need to, I've submitted the information you wanted to ignore that is relevant to the topic.
@Mitch
"There is a pervasive misogyny in the free-thought society."
In my own opinion, I don't think "the free-thought society" is any worse than the rest of society. On the contrary I'd say there is less discrimination among the non-religious. But of course, it's still around. And perhaps among atheists and anti-theists, the the focus on gender discrimination is overlooked, as it's drowned in the noise of all the other more excessive discrimination that religion is causing, like forced marriages, hate propaganda against LGBT's and out right human rights violations, etc.
I live in Sweden and last I checked we are among the top 5 countries in the world for gender equality (I like to associate that to the fact that we also have a low level of religiosity, even though I don't have anything tangible to base that on).
But even so, we still have the micro-aggressions you describe and a clear wage gap between the sexes and very few women in top positions in companies and on boards.
My wife works as a nurse, a line of work that is predominantly held by women and has always been a low paying job. Their wages has gone up, but it's still not adequate in proportion to the education it requires or the responsibility and workload they have. It's just ridiculous.
In some cases the feminism here has actually gone a bit too far, sparking a small movement of men trying to fight against "discrimination of men". We have some outspoken feminists who could be regarded as "militant", who have made statements along the lines "Men are useless cattle", "Men should be put in concentration camps", and so on. But then, someone has to be the extreme case too.
I wouldn't even be aware of this more extreme feminism if it wasn't for a co-worker who is very upset by these feminists and constantly follows news feeds on the subject.
To me, gender discrimination is a complex issue. I'm absolutely for equal rights for everyone and no discrimination of sex, race, LGBT, age, etc. But it seems that some people want to push it to the point where the sexes are complete erased. In Sweden we now have a word that is a mix between "him" and "her", and some extreme people have started a daycare centre where the staff is not allowed to refer to the children as "him" of "her". I don't get this, and I think that it might instead be extra confusing for the children and have it's own set of negative effects.
In the end, we are two different sexes with physiological and psychological differences. I would like to have equality without erasing the differences between the sexes. I happen to like the differences and consider them to be part of what makes us humans, part of our identities.
"In the end, we are two different sexes with physiological and psychological differences. I would like to have equality without erasing the differences between the sexes. I happen to like the differences and consider them to be part of what makes us humans, part of our identities."
Well said
Yep, we have to accept the fact that we are different and stop pretending we are not just to serve as an excuse by feminist to have something to say.
First of all, excellent work Sweden.
Second, you make some excellent points: misogyny might be no worse in the atheist community, than in the general public. Additionally, activism is never an adequate cover for abusive, or violent behavior. And yes, there are physiological difference between men and women.
I don't know if erasure of sex is the way forward, though I am confident that letting discriminatory behavior continue unchecked, is not. This discrimination is happening in the larger atheist movement, and is here, in our threads, amongst our members.
This will not continue unchallenged.
Have you personally seen any examples of gender-based discrimination here in the forums? Could you spot it?
"I don't know if erasure of sex is the way forward..."
I hope not, too many trans people have fought long and hard to be considered the sex they feel they are, it would be horseshit for that to all be erased for no good reason...
“Have you personally seen any examples of gender-based discrimination here in the forums? Could you spot it?”
@Mitch
Yes, your refusal to comprehensively debate gender discrimination. For example, you want to discard and ignore the fact large numbers of young men (MGTOW and Japan’s herbavoire men) have decided to opt out of marriage entirely! You do not want to explore the possibility that feminism has gone too far. Over time the oppressed have turned into oppressors. You’re only willing to discuss the results from one side of the push back while ignoring the cause! Take your blinders off Mitch! Look at gender discrimination out of the narrow women’s only perspective. Consider why men are reacting to feminist financial bullying in divorce courts! Consider why colleges have a minority of men attending. Men accused of rape have their lives and reputations ruined by false allegations and women are not prosecuted for it. You only want to consider the results when men push back and feminists ignore the cause.
When Pragmatic mentioned Swedish feminist extremists:
“In some cases the feminism here has actually gone a bit too far, sparking a small movement of men trying to fight against "discrimination of men". We have some outspoken feminists who could be regarded as "militant", who have made statements along the lines "Men are useless cattle", "Men should be put in concentration camps", and so on. But then, someone has to be the extreme case too.
I wouldn't even be aware of this more extreme feminism if it wasn't for a co-worker who is very upset by these feminists and constantly follows news feeds on the subject.”
Mitch’s reaction was:
“First of all, excellent work Sweden.”
Sounds you have a gender based bias to me Mitch. If you really want to address gender-based discrimination address the problem in its entirety. Otherwise, the battle between the sexes will intensify.
"I live in Sweden and last I checked we are among the top 5 countries in the world for gender equality (I like to associate that to the fact that we also have a low level of religiosity, even though I don't have anything tangible to base that on)."
This was what I was praising about Sweden in my post, and not any effort by some extremist feminist to diminish men. I apologize for not being adequately specific as to what about Sweden I was praising.
I don't believe you. You were over enthusiastic and your true intentions bled through. Now your being dishonest.
Question: Do you think the woman in this video of a divorce is real or an actor? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mlJxBFXs6k
One more I want to share: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0ERFVvJu0s
LOL And I thought I had seen the worst lol
Divorceing him because"He made her gain weight" ROFL
Watched the vids. And?
The divorce cases were for a laugh, on a more serious note: https://www.youtube.com/user/Thunderf00t
Cyberlyn: Did you watch Phil Mason's videos as I recommended above?
What is your opinion of Rebecca Watson?
I've watched many of his videos. I agree with a lot of what he has to say and disagree with some.
As for Rebecca Watson, I'm afraid I'm just not familiar enough with her to give you an opinion.
Some folks think feminist and radical are the same thing. I hope you're not one of them. There's a spectrum to every -ist and -ism.
I believe in fairness, and Rebecca Watson is an embarrassment to the atheist community. She starts a cancer drive by insulting the male audience. Is that a way to encourage donations?
I consider Jaclyn Glenn a fair representative of the atheist community. I’ve watched a lot of her videos. Very intelligent and creative woman: https://www.youtube.com/user/JaclynGlenn
Another thing I don’t like about Rebecca Watson is she approves of doxxing Phil Mason and others that disagree with her. That is going too far in my opinion.
ImFree, what is the value of a comment that calls into question the character women in the atheist movement, in a thread ABOUT discrimination of women in the atheist movement?
Maybe to show that discrimination "in the atheist movement" is being done less on women then it is on men.
Starting with your unsupported claims against men in the beginning of this topic.
LIES like this:
"almost every time a female colleague tries to speak,
she is interrupted by a male colleague."
Jeff.
The quotation you provided is an excerpt from an example scenario, which was part of this University of New Hampshire initiative:
http://www.unh.edu/sites/www.unh.edu/files/departments/affirmative_actio...
Page one, fourth paragraph.
It's not something anyone has actually said.
I know but you presented it as evidence for woman discrimination by man in your second post on the first page.(lies)
"It's not something anyone has actually said."
actually you did say it:
Mitch:
"And yeah, the latter is more difficult to address. All hands will need to be on deck, if it is to change. This stuff is not small, by any stretch, and discrimination is so casually accepted in our society."
Here you are clearly saying that you will present an example of "discrimination is so casually accepted in our society."
"Small stuff, as it's know, can be what is often referred to as microagression. Lets define the "small stuff" problem we're facing:
Microaggressions:
• are verbal and nonverbal behaviors
• communicate negative, hostile, and derogatory messages to
people rooted in their marginalized group membership (based
on gender, race, ethnicity, sexuality, etc.)
• occur in everyday interactions
• can be intentional or unintentional
• are often unacknowledged
Here's an example:
"During a meeting of the faculty search committee on which you
are serving, almost every time a female colleague tries to speak,
she is interrupted by a male colleague. No one says anything
when this happens. Finally, your female colleague stops trying
to offer contributions to the discussion. You wonder what she
wanted to say.""
That example is neither a true thing that really happened and you quoted something which the author clearly says to just imagine such a scenario.
The author is biased also but you misquoted him on purpose to make it mean that woman are discriminated instead of just making the reader feel what "some" woman feel in such a scenario where man are the majority.(biased author)
But you sir are far worse then him, you show clear signs of anti-man behavior and a lot of feminist stupid ideas brawl in your head like the gospel truth.
Theist are less faithful then you in their belief.
Check your sources.
The example I provided was the same the study provided - word for word.
You're accusing me of dishonesty, when I clearly indicated that the scenario was an example of microagress. I provided the source.
It may be I didn't clarify enough, that that was an example I had taken directly from the report.
No, you clearly said that the "small stuff" (microagression) "is not small, by any stretch, and discrimination is so casually accepted in our society."
"Small stuff, as it's know, can be what is often referred to as microagression."
"This stuff is not small, by any stretch, and discrimination is so casually accepted in our society."
You are clearly making a link where microagression = "discrimination is so casually accepted in our society."
Then you provide the example of microagression.
Where in reality it is not an example but a scenario that the author want you to imagine.
What ever you wanted to mean in that post, it clearly appeared that you were giving an example of microagression in real life and that: "All hands will need to be on deck, if it is to change."
So please stop denying the obvious.
Actually, everything you wrote here is correct, except that I was providing an example of how microagression COULD happen in real life.
I didn't make distinction that the example was not real-life, or state specifically that it was a contrived scenario, which was provided to me as an example in the cited paper. I simply said "Here's and example", intending to mean a sample scenario, provided by the report, which is intended to illustrate microagression.
I do apologize for any confusion.
As i said, the way you presented it, it appeared as evidence for woman discrimination.
(because you haven't provided anything to support this claim yet)
Before you were talking about real life:
"All hands will need to be on deck, if it is to change."
Then you placed a very flawed and biased example of an imaginary microagression.
OK apologies accepted, so you cannot blame anyone for misunderstanding you on that point.
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