Is it a straight line to the galaxies in the Hubble Ultra Deep Field?
What if that line was of multiple lengths? Multiples of multiples ..........
Our little brains cannot even imagine a tiny number like seven billion, the amount of
people in the world.
So much of what we know and do was, not that long ago, “impossible and it will never be”.
To me everything always was, we are just getting better at understanding and explaining it.
Who made god? A god, to me, does not make sense.
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@wasbutnomore: The topic generally comes at the beginning of the paragraph. "A God, to me, does not make sense." Why bury it in all the mumbo-jumbo about other shit that you are not going to talk about? This is an Atheist Forum, Galaxies, the Hubble Deep Field, Multiple Lenghts of Lines (Whatever the hell that is), seven billion people in the world, our little tiny brains, whether or not everything ever was (which it could not possibly have been given elements were formed during the expansion of the universe and the atom in your body came from stars), what is "impossible and never will be?", How are we then explaining it?, Which god or what god are you referring to?, and finally, Why ask the question if in fact the thing you are speaking of makes no sense to you?
I'm gonna take a guess here... English is not your first language is it?
Who made god?
Smart people who devised a method of controlling the stupid and gullible.
Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!!!!! We have a winner!!!!
Who made god?
You mean the abrahamic god?
Originally some imaginative storytelling Levite priests in Canaan around 1000 BC is my best bet.
What we have in the OT is basically the collation and editing of all those myths and extra material added which included tithing and payments for the priesthood (clever eh?) and amended by more Levite priests around 700 BC plus some additions and redactions up to the 14-15th century AD when numbering of chapters and verse were introduced for the Torah and Bible which made further alterations more than obvious.
Thats just my take.
@wasbutnomore: Notice how everyone is simply ignoring all the bullshit and just responding to the Topic? Who made god? Did you really have anything else to say? This is an atheist forum. We don't believe in god or gods around here. The question is inane. Perhaps something like, "How did the concept of god or gods come to be?"
For that question, I have a response that is just as good as any other. Go to your favorite "Watch Free Movies" site. I use PutLocker, and watch "The Invention of Lying." Everything will become obvious. The answer is as relevant today as it was to cro magnon man.
Re: "Who made god?"
Well, duh! The Primary Initial God Creating Alpha Overlord, obviously. Geez. Next question, please.
@Tin-Man: EW: "The Primary Initial God Creating Alpha Overlord" Obviously a reference to the Big Yellow Banana.
@wasbutnomore: Who made god?
Well a long time ago some Jewish guys dreamed up a hero who came from beyond the sky and was wonderfully strong. Then they just kept on adding more and more powers to keep it interesting. They also added various other good and evil powers to maintain the drama.
That's how Jerry Siegel Joe Shuster created Superman. The names of the Jews who invented Jehovah are unknown, but I'm sure they they followed a similar process. I find Superman more believable.
The question is of course a hypothetical one, as no objective evidence has been demonstrated for any deity. Theists when pressed can't even offer a cogent accurate definition of what they mean by god. However I'd lay a years wages most theists would dismiss the question with an unevidenced claim that god was eternal, propped up by an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy along the lines of "the universe requires an eternal creator to explain its existence."
Its flim flam of course, and IMHO a far better question to start with is what objective evidence can you demonstrate for the existence of any deity. Then tackle the the contradiction your question is aimed at when they use the above appeal to ignorance fallacy for a universe creating deity.
The great cosmic unicorn rears her head again.
You DO know you're on an atheist forum?
Sense has nothing to do with it. Religion is about faith, not reason.
Which God? YHWH? Easy for believers; nobody made YHWH, he as always existed. Next question,
I'm rather fond of the creation of the ancient Egyptian pantheon myself. Shows the Egyptians had great imagination.
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"Ancient Egyptian creation myths are the ancient Egyptian accounts of the creation of the world. The Pyramid Texts, tomb wall decorations and writings, dating back to the Old Kingdom (2780–2250 BC) have given us most of our information regarding early Egyptian creation myths.[1] These myths also form the earliest religious compilations in the world.[2] The ancient Egyptians had many creator gods and associated legends. Thus the world or more specifically Egypt was created in diverse ways according to different parts of the country.[3] "
"In all of these myths, the world was said to have emerged from an infinite, lifeless sea when the sun rose for the first time, in a distant period known as zp tpj (sometimes transcribed as Zep Tepi), "the first occasion".[4] Different myths attributed the creation to different gods: the set of eight primordial deities called the Ogdoad, the self-engendered god Atum and his offspring, the contemplative deity Ptah, and the mysterious, transcendent god Amun. While these differing cosmogonies competed to some extent, in other ways they were complementary, as different aspects of the Egyptian understanding of creation. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_creation_myths
@wasbutnomore
Humans made up the gods they worship.
I was just trying to point out that our little brain capability is very small, no matter how smart we think we are.
Like comparing an abacus to a super computer. The further out we go the bigger we see it is. Not a hint of a wall.
At every point of the continuation, a continuation can be imagined. To me, everything could have forever existed.
No real or imagined creator needed.
I am trying to comprehend your statements, but all I get is static from all the fuzzy wuzzy terminology.
Please define "continuation".
Personally, I revel in the human spirit which is indomitable and allows us to achieve great things. And I do believe we are pretty smart. it is taking time, but we are slowly peeling back the mysteries of the cosmos, continually expanding our knowledge.
When I read your post I get the impression you are a theist, downplaying our human capacity and abilities.
Well 1200 cm^3 of processing power is certainly not something to shun on. (do we say "shun on something?"). In the past 200 years, using our brains correctly has brought many positive things in service of Humanity.
Quite right Talyyn. Someone far smarter than me once observed that each human brain contained the Universe. Nothing petty there.
And as far as the combined knowledge of humankind goes, we are all "standing on the shoulders of giants".
In a way, Grinseed, it is true, since all of what we experience is filtered through it. For the "standing on the shoulders of giants", I totally agree. I do not consider myself that intelligent, so believe me when I say those women and men rocked the world.
@wasbutnomore: "To me, everything could have forever existed." Already debunked. Your atoms came from stars. Different elements came into existence with the expansion of the universe. "As space expanded, the universe cooled and matter formed."
"During the first three minutes of the universe, the light elements were born." (Big Bang nucleosynthesis.) Protons and neutrons collided to make deuterium, an isotope of hydrogen. Most of the deuterium combined to make helium, and trace amounts of lithium were also generated."
Even if you use a contraction and expansion model, if would not be the exact same protons and neutrons being created.
You might want to simply lose the word "Created." The universe came into existence via natural causes as far as anyone can tell. How the elements got here is pretty well understood. If you simply lose the word "created." all the baggage it carries simply goes away. I seriously doubt anyone around here even bothers with the idea of a created anything. Natural causation is observable, predictable, measurable, and repeatable. You are kinda preaching to the choir.
Heh, a line with multiple lengths; that sounds like a very weird object.
"Heh, a line with multiple lengths; that sounds like a very weird object."
I suspect that the object of speculation was that since light waves from the very distant galaxies traveled billions of light-years, they may not have traveled in perfectly straight lines.
The first point is that the spaces between stars and galaxies are full of gas and dust, and of course, light can bounce and refract off such physical objects.
The second point is that (and we now delve into Einstein's theory of relativity) the light path could be bent by the gravity of objects close to the line of passage. But how can you measure or even define such a path when this is a function of a warped space-time? Maybe someone more versed in such a concept can offer a solution?
My cousin has multiple pickup lines and goes to any length to achieve a big bang. AND he's weird. Boom tish.
@wasbutnomore
"Our little brains cannot even imagine a tiny number like seven billion, the amount of
people in the world."
Of course we can.
Take seven thousand, multiply it by a thousand. Now do it again. Voila, seven billion, I did it.
I just refuted that statement. We can imagine seven billion.
"So much of what we know and do was, not that long ago, “impossible and it will never be”.'
I attribute that quote to those who erect barriers and are unwilling to pursue to the end. But for scientists and those possessing curiosity, "impossible and it will never be" is not in our makeup or vocabulary.
"To me everything always was"
We do not have a definitive answer to that question, thus the answer is "we do not know .. yet".
wasbutnomore you remind me of a Bulgarian due I had on one of my crews, we were running conduit in a hospital, into each room in preparation for installing Cat5 cabling. The contract was that everything had to be behind walls, and yes, it was a challenging job. Every time we ran up against a problem he would throw his arms up and pronounce it was impossible to accomplish. I don't know how many times I told him that anything is possible, you just have to work at finding a solution.
> Who made god?
Our ancestors made the god. Fossils evidences have proved we have existed since 3.8 billion years and the first religious document was written 5,000 years ago. When science was unable to give them explanations, they look for meaning. They thought like that sun and moon are living objects. When rain fell onto the ground, they again thought that some unseen entity is raining. We got to know later that steam was the cause of rain. Egyptians believed that Zeus was the cause of lightning bolts.
> What if that line was of multiple lengths? Multiples of multiples ..........
Nothing would happen. God is supposed to be timeless, materless, energyless and spaceless being. According to his characteristics, God must be very different.
> Our little brains cannot even imagine a tiny number like seven billion, the amount of
people in the world.
Not only tiny number of people but also tiny number of galaxies. We are living in milky way galaxy. There are trillion of galaxies like us and billions of stars in space. After-all they are not infinite, we can count them.
> So much of what we know and do was, not that long ago, “impossible and it will never be”.
To me everything always was, we are just getting better at understanding and explaining it.
3.8 billion years - 5,000 years = 3,799,995,000 years. Think what happened between those years and you'll get your answer
God is a self existing being. Easy peezy. He exists by his own volition
@reedemption
Why couldn't the Universe self-exist? Even if a god-like being existed, why would it necessary the christian god? Why would this being be particularly interested in your life?
Umm, I was under the impression the universe does 'self exist' in that it DID come from nothing.
Below two links to video by physicist Laurence Krauss .The first is a bit over 4 minutes.--His 2009 book is called "A Universe From Nothing" .The second clip is over an hour. Introduced by Richard Dawkins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9urEFoaI1iY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo
@cranky
Honestly I don't know, i will look at the videos.
@Reedemption Re: "God is a self existing being. Easy peezy. He exists by his own volition"
Sweet! Then your god is exactly the same as the Ginormous Invisible Blue Universe-Creating Bunny that often sleeps in my garage. How cool is that?... *beaming smile*...
@reedemption
I ate your "god" for lunch the other day accidentally... it tasted like chicken.
So your "god" does not exist anymore.
Prove me wrong.
Don't like what I wrote above?
Maybe because I made a huge claim without evidence? Does that bother you?
IT SHOULD.
Follow along on this thought pattern? Agree with me that my ridiculous claim bothers you?
Well now you know how anyone that does not believe in your particular "god" flavor feels. Sword cuts both ways, your human created idea of god is not immune to this concept just because you wish it so.
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▮I am an atheist that always likes a good debate
▮Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
▮Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.
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@Logic
Doesn't bother me in the least , nor would it were I a believer .
You're the one who has made a claim. It's up to you to prove your claim not to anyone to disprove it --I'm just using the same rule of logic we use on believers when they claim there is a god. It's called "the burden of proof".
"When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim especially when it challenges a perceived status quo.[1] This is also stated in Hitchens's razor. Carl Sagan proposed a related criterion, the Sagan standard, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)
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