Religious people claim that this world was owned by the almighty God,but when we look back to history and our day objectively,we can clearly see that since humankind has engaged in agriculture (nearly 12,000 years ago),there has always been a ''feudal'' system,which contradict with freedom/liberty.In this system,people are just slaves,who's duty only is to make their kings/patrons,feudal lords happy.And this system has developed into a new concept;''capitalism''.As a matter of the fact that,today this capital system is governing us from our toe nails until our hair.If someone refuse to live according to the rules of this system,he/she gets kick(or we can say it ''anathema'')from the life.So as you know this capital system is a bad one.And if your ''Almight God'' is the owner of everything and bannishes(so to say)to evil,sin and badness;why he just can't stop this system or give a pause it,and can give a chance to people to live in peace,with love,with full of pretty laws?But please don't tell me these;''Yeah God allowing to capital system to be exist because we are in a world,where we are being tested by Him.''Then if this exploiting(capital) system is part of the test,why then religious people are complaining about too many things in their life?Why just they don't shut their mouth by saying''ok this is a very bad situation,but its the result of the test which was organised by the God?Ok as a result, this world do not governed by the God except''Capitalism'',because we as humans, have/had to live/lived by this system,which was dictated by the ''Devils''!So if i see that someday this world is a real peaceful place to live,and has a pretty laws(as your God claimed)then i may think of the existence about your ''Merciful''and''Omnipotence'' God.
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the Capitalistic system I feel is the best system there is Just look at the ussr and velenzuela one communist and the other socialist look at the standard of living also look at cuba there standard of living is nothing compared then that of the good old USA. If I work hard why shouldn`t I be compensated for my efforts. MY country is built on freedom by the declaration of independence and the constitution . I t is by far the best economic system that has been tried. Since God gives humanity free will I`m vehemently against any other kind of system, That takes from my pocket to give to someone else who hasn`t either worked at all or has contributed but is classified as a taker.
science follower
Again you claim there is a god. So give us testable evidence that can pass peer review.
@science follower
1) The USSR was in better economic shape than capitalist Russia.
2) China has sky-rocketed economically
3) The best economic nations with the highest standard of living are ALL Socialist nations.
Don't even TRY and interject the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence. You don't know a damn thing about either one of them. The Declaration of Independence doesn't give one iota of freedom. It isn't meant to.
There is no god and by definition, the myth of a christian god does not give anyone free will. Predetermination is NOT free will.
The only people taking money "from your goddamned pocket" and the conservatives that perpetrated the biggest wealth redistribution in world history.
The capitalist system flaw is corruption. The USA was never meant to be a pure capitalist system. It was and is meant to be a well REGULATED capitalist system.
You seriously need to get an education. The Federalist Papers spells out just what the Constitution means. Try reading it, but please get someone who can help you because you lack the capability of understanding many things simple or complicated. It's obvious that you can't comprehend history or science.
What features do feudalism and capitalism have in common? How do you explain the massive improvements in social indicators, such as life expectancy and literacy, that occurred in Britain after the Industrial Revolution and the emergence of capitalism? Can you name any other system in history that has produced equivalent benefits? Which system would you prefer over capitalism?
You seem to be saying that you'd believe in god if it would just sweep away capitalism. Is that right?
I don't say feudalism is capitalism.May be feudalism more merciful when comparing with capitalism.But it was the feudal system that has lead to existence of capital system.In feudal as i explained above there is a slavery system which was dictated by the wealthy,rich and authorities.So today in capital system,the same way of living exist.It is called "modern slavery".And sure most of the bad things happening because of this terrible system for instance; people die from hungry,(because riches exploiting all sources),wars are happening,lifes of humans turning into a horror film etc...so i say;if there is a omnipotence and merciful God(who is the ruler of everything) why he just take the control,and stop these terrible matters?I made an irony intentionally in the last by saying"if one day we have a peace etc i would think of God".Sure it won't because there is no God if he(who claim himself as"merciful") had available somehow,there wouldn't be these kind of terrible systems and their horrorful results now.
Cultivar: "May be feudalism more merciful when comparing with capitalism."
That's an extraordinary statement. Under a feudal system, the ordinary people (serfs) had no rights and no chance of upward mobility. They were virtually the property of the local lord. The most recent examples are Tsarist Russia (until 1918) and Edo Period Japan (until 1868). A Russian lord could kill his serfs on a whim or exile them to Siberia on foot. A Japanese daimyo could behead a peasant just to try out the edge on a new sword.
Under capitalism you're free to change your job. If you have a good idea, you're also free to persuade others to invest their money with you to start up a new venture. You're free to buy goods supplied to markets by capitalist companies, and you're free not to buy them.
Capitalism is not a perfect system, but I think it's the best we've come up with so far. I also think it has the potential to be perfected. One requirement for capitalism to flourish is the rule of law. Countries run by dictators don't have that, and that's why they tend to be poor, apart from the ruling elite. North Korea doesn't attract much investment because it's run by an unpredictable lunatic whose word is law.
What system do countries like Sweden, Norway, and Denmark use. They seem to be doing the best in the world as far as overall happiness and well being of their citizens. Maybe a hybrid of socialism and capitalism? Idk. One thing I do know, god did not give us freewill. He didnt give us anything because he doesn't exist. BTW, its debatable if we actually have freewill at all.
@Freefromgod: "What system do countries like Sweden, Norway, and Denmark use."
They're all capitalist countries with extensive social security systems. I don't know enough about their economies to say whether they've got the right mix, but they seem to be doing better than most countries.
I live in Finland and I think your description is accurate. We have a social safety net and high taxes.
Some sectors in the Nordic countries are publicly owned, most notably a huge part of health care. Most industries are privately owned. The political parties that have driven this kind of development in the Nordic countries are called Social Democratic parties. A running joke about Finnish politics is that we have only Social Democratic parties in our parliament, because they all defend the welfare state, but that is not completely true.
I really get tired of the kind of dystopian visions shown in the original post. For some reason atheists seem to be quite prone to that kind on nihilism. We had the last peacetime famine here only 150 years ago. 200000 people died. But after that, with generations of hard work, our country is now prosperous and most people here are doing fine. I was lucky to be born in to this prosperity, but even if you were not, there is no reason to think that the place where you live could not slowly develop to become better. And don't get me wrong: many people over here are complaining and not doing anything about their problems - that is a human universal, regardless of circumstances.
If all Atheists were as nihilistic as the starting post, I would join a religion just to keep myself sane. Luckily that is not the case.
Beware of all 'isms. It isn't just about economics. It is about freedoms too. Socialist systems tend to suppress news and dissent.
I think some people (USAmericans most commonly, perhaps) mistakenly call well-regulated capitalism "socialism". It is nothing of the kind:
'Socialism', noun
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
synonyms: leftism, Fabianism, syndicalism, consumer socialism, utopian socialism, welfarism; More
policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.
synonyms: leftism, Fabianism, syndicalism, consumer socialism, utopian socialism, welfarism; More
(in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.
Ideologues are the danger, whether capitalist or socialist.
@ZeffD: "I think some people (USAmericans most commonly, perhaps) mistakenly call well-regulated capitalism "socialism".
You're right. The word "socialism" seems to be used differently in the US. As a Brit/New Zealander, I link socialism with nationalization and state ownership of industries. In a socialist economy, the means of production are owned by the community in theory, but in practice everything is controlled by bureaucrats. Consumers spend their lives waiting in line to buy the few defective products that decrepit industries manage to churn out. Healthcare is universal and free but you can't have any because there's a 10-year waiting list for every medical procedure. Things are always going to get better under the next five-year plan.
Life is nice for the political/bureaucratic elite, but drab and nasty for everyone else.
The Rothschild family (Or however that is spelled)
Capitalism certainly has it's flaws, but it is a powerful system. Based around a basic human trait of wanting more. However like any set of rules, it is open to abuse. The stronger you make the rules the less abuse, the weaker they are the more abuse.
I think in the US, the "rules" have been steadily tilting towards the very rich and powerful. The wealth inequality in this country is increasingly extreme. The upward mobility the US boasted about for many years is slowing way down, if you are born poor starting in the 1980's it much more likely you will stay there then rise up to middle class or upper class. If you were born in the middle class it is more likely to drop into lower class than to reach upper class. All the income/wealth gains in the last 3 decades has been funneled to the wealthiest while lower and middle class income levels adjusted for inflation has stayed the same. The 1% has captured 80+ percent of the increase in wealth the richest country in the history of the world created. With the top 20% claiming 99+ percent of the increased wealth in the last 3 decades.
On the bright side, as technology improves quality of life for all classes has improved in the areas technology touches. Being poor in the US is still far better than being poor in most other countries, and at any other time in human history. Overall outcomes for even the poorest has gotten better.
Utopia is a great idea, but I have no idea how to get there from here. Especially with the extremely wealthy in control. Maybe powerful new technologies we invent in the future?
Communism obviously works worse than capitalism. In a globalized world you must have a strong and aggressive economic system. Or another country's system will supercede your own, and communism is ripe for abuse by those in control, and of course the lack of greed/betterment motivation by everyone else.
Certainly seems to me, unless you belong to the 1%, that a strong socialistic control of capitalism markets is the way to go. Just real care to prevent abuses to the power that government holds in strong socialistic control of major systems. Having money completely exit politics would be a good start.