Q: What is so ironic about Atheists?
A: They're always talking about God.
Have you ever noticed how angry and aggressive atheists are towards those who believe in God? I mean, aside from the fringe “Christian” group (westboro baptist church) Christians generally are pretty well mannered. I’ve seen a few especially in this forum that remained pretty civil while the others just cussed left and right. Aside from that there seems to be an air of superiority amongst atheists, immediately regarding any believer as lesser or ignorant, before a question is even asked. Seems almost to me that these attitudes prove why Christianity is valuable. It encourages soft dialogue rather than a hateful stampede from lost, self righteous leftists who probably all believe Elizabeth Warren is Native American. Who Agrees?
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That’s been my experience here in this forum. The anonymity of these forums contributes I think. So much hatred and emotion invested in a creature they believe doesn’t exist.
What contributes to the hatred is assholes that refuse to discuss issues honestly. People who refuse to respond to legitimate questions wasting our time and their own. People who wriggle squirm and dodge their way through the forums and then whine and cry about being called out on their bullshit.
Oh By the way! You said Atheists have a system of beliefs. Are you just being one of those assholes or are you going to share with us what the Atheist beliefs are? All I know is that Atheists are people who do not believe in god or gods. Do you know something I don't know. Please enlighten us to these sets of beliefs all atheists share.
1. Atheists do not believe in god or Gods
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
4. ?
A pair of trolls. How often do you see that? Are they a breeding pair?
Someone takes photo before they're both banned.
May not have photos, but got some screen caps. Will upload the image when I get it made.
rmfr
You do know that your religions commandments prohibit lying don't you? Your posts suggest you either don't know, or don't care. What atheists on here "hate" is theists like you who come here with the pretence of civil discussion but really want to troll, and deliver sententious arrogant sermons to heathens. The arrogance of your posts is matched only by their sheer hypocrisy.
Like all other forums and debate rooms I've encountered, you get out pretty much what you put in. So when a chippy angry theists seeks us out to preach at us, it's ironic such posters stick around to keep telling us how dissatisfying they find the responses. If you had come here to try and learn what atheists think, and perhaps why, you might have learned something, as it is you sought us out without caring about either, and this of course is amply reflected in your posts about atheists, which remain as ignorant and ill informed as when you first came here.
Why do you think it is immoral to torture children? Why do you disagree with your deity on this point?
Try showing a modicum of integrity and answer some of the difficult questions that resent the most valid challenges to your verbiage, instead of mendaciously stringing unevidenced claim after unevidenced claim together endlessly, and you just might get some respect.
@ DoesAtheismEven...
Most people on this site are very calm and, when not poked by trolls or the wilfully stupid treat each person with respect...or rather they respect that they deserve.
I certainly do cuss at people, it's not so much frowned on in Australia as it is in parts of America. Some people deserve a good cussing out for various reasons. Intractable ignorance is the main offender, and sometimes yes it is deployed for shock value.
Most theist arguments/surveys/missionaries who pass through here are repeating tired old apologetics that most of the highly intelligent, and some very highly qualified members have heard a hundred times.
When one is preached at, one's questions avoided or disregarded or even downright ignored, yes I will get testy, I will cuss and I will treat you with the contempt you deserve.
Its nothing to do with atheism, it is to do with my reaction to fools.
DoesAtheismEven...,
"What is with Atheists these days?"
Why would a rational intelligent person want to believe in either the gods in the Bible or in the Koran?
I'm fairly certain that you are like most of us, basically nice and not too big of an ass hole. So you don't go around robbing, stealing, burning down towns, killing, or baby raping. But those are the very things that the deities in the Bible and in the Koran command their followers to do. So why do you want to become a big ass hole and do those evil acts when your deity commands you to do them?
If you must worship something then worship your right big toe. It is not evil like the gods of the Bible and the Koran are.
With all due respect this isn’t what the Bible teaches. Maybe you can cherry pick a few versus from the OT that supports killing but when the entire book is taken in context with full understanding, this isn’t the truth. You are not an expert in the Bible’s teaching. The experts say this isn’t the teaching. Don’t you think it’s arrogance and ignorance that lead you to make these claims?
I will grant you, you don’t have enough proof God exists and that’s why you’re atheist, and that’s fine. but if you don’t study the Bible genuinely for what it is, how can you honestly make claims like that?
DoesAtheismEven...,
"With all due respect this isn’t what the Bible teaches. Maybe you can cherry pick a few versus from the OT that supports killing but when the entire book is taken in context with full understanding, this isn’t the truth."
Do you even know what the real First Commandment is? Do you know that the first nine of the Ten Commandments call for the death penalty for people who violate them?
John 15:6 (CJB) = "Unless a person remains united with me, he is thrown away like a branch and dries up. Such branches are gathered and thrown into the fire, where they are burned up."
Most of the Bible is pure evil and teaches hateful things. Some of the secular books in it have a few good thoughts but the ones that are heavy on the god thing are mostly garbage with no redeeming value.
John 15:6 (CJB) = "Unless a person remains united with me, he is thrown away like a branch and dries up. Such branches are gathered and thrown into the fire, where they are burned up."
I'm sorry but I fail to see the "pure evil" in this statement...?
DoesAtheismEvenMakeSense: "Such branches are gathered and thrown into the fire, where they are burned up."
Since this is an analogy, simply replace the one word with what he is actually speaking about.
"Such humans are gathered and thrown into the fire, where they are burned up."
I am only curious, but are you playing dense, or are you actually that dense?
The whole premise of Christianity, and Islam, can be summed up in two sentences.
Although these exact sentences cannot be found in the Bible or Qu’ran verbatim, there is plenty of verses in both that say this same thing. Go and do research. Quit being that religious robot being fed the data only they wish you to know. Go study some real knowledge: SCIENCE.
rmfr
"I am only curious, but are you playing dense, or are you actually that dense?"
Neither. it just seems that I have a better understanding of what this verse means in the context of Christianity. Not to say I am "holier than thou", but honestly, you are missing a greater point, and the truth of this statement.
"Arakish: “You are to live in peace, love, and brotherhood, but only with those of like minds (beliefs system). All others are to be put to the sword (killed).”
I agree with you about Islam, although I am no expert. I imagine just like you find within Christianity there are groups that differ on how to interpret the sayings in the Qu'ran. Although I am more inclined to believe they are fundamentally a religion of war. Christianity is not.
"Go study some real knowledge: SCIENCE"
Romans 12:2 “Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.”
@ DoesAtheismEvenMakeSense
With this post you did prove you really are dense. Keep going and a neutron star will look fluffy as a marshmellow. It is also another proof that us atheists know your Bible better than any of you Religious Absolutists. You do know that your Magic Lich Virgin named Heysoos always spole through the lies of metaphorical analogy, do you not.
“Such branches are gathered and thrown into the fire, where they are burned up.”
Since this is an analogy, simply replace the one word with what he is actually speaking about.
“Such humans are gathered and thrown into the fire, where they are burned up.”
This is the metaphorical analogy of what is going to happen to the unbelievers.
If you truly are not that dense, then at least try to act like your not. Then again, it is easier for intelligence to act stupid than it is for stupid to act intelligent.
“You are to live in peace, love, and brotherhood, but only with those of like minds (beliefs system). All others are to be put to the sword (killed).”
And you say this is false for Christianity? Better read that book of plagiarized lies again. You definitely never have truly read that anthology of horror stories have you? Can't say I blame you since I find that book more horrifying and scarey than anything Lovecraft or Poe ever wrote.
Romans 12:2 “Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.”
Wussie's cop-out. Same excuse all Religious Absolutists use to simply prove their lack of intelligence and knowledge. Fine stay in the Dark Ages. I could care less.
On a further note, just by your admittance and your posts, you are sorry mean-ass drunk. I hope in all Hell you ain't married any longer. If you are that mean-ass on a forum board, I hate to think what ANY woman would have to put up with in real life.
rmfr
DoesAtheismEven...
"John 15:6 (CJB) = "Unless a person remains united with me, he is thrown away like a branch and dries up. Such branches are gathered and thrown into the fire, where they are burned up.""
If your spouse told you that you would be chopped up and thrown into the fire if you ever broke off the relationship would you consider that to be pure evil? Or are you turned on when someone threatens to abuse and kill you?
Fifty Shades of Fire?
lol
I understand more like this.
If my spouse said, "If you show me love and kindness throughout our lives, I will show you the same. If you do not, I will have to leave you." Would you say this is unfair?
Then she does not truly love you and is just holding your emotions hostage.
Love also includes mutual respect. If she does not have it, love is not present.
"Love also includes mutual respect. If she does not have it, love is not present"
Very much agreed. I told my wife I would not leave her for anything. Even if she cheated on me, I wouldn't leave. She said the only condition she will stay is I don't cheat on her haha. Understandable though.
If the only reason she would leave you is if you ‘cheated on her’ then she is, imo, quite the egotist.
DoesAtheismEven...,
"I understand more like this."
Do you know what the penalty is for violating the first nine of the Ten Commandments? It is death. Do you know how many stories there are in the Bible that teach that rule? Just about all of them.
@ DoesAtheismEvenMakeSense
I have spent over 30+ years traveling all over the Levant and beyond to research the veracity of the Bible. I have also studied the Bible for over 40+ years. This makes me an expert. Final summation: Christianity and Islam are Pure Evil.
The Bible is nothing more than a collection of plagiarized lies, being plagiarized from myths and legends FAR! older than the Bible. Many thousands of years older.
As for us cherry-picking verses to prove our points, what exactly are Religious Absolutist Trolls doing?
And the only arrogance is yours. Assuming this “holier-than-thou” attitude because that is what your evil religion teaches. And the only ignorance is also yours. Refusing to believe anything other than an obsolete, irrelevant, barbaric, savage, and unsubstantiated, immoral Bronze and Iron Age collection of plagiarized faerie tales of a Sky Faerie and Magic Lich Virgin is both arrogance and ignorance.
rmfr
“ANY ideology, especially religious, that cannot withstand criticism is inherently evil. — Arakish”
Christianity has withstood criticism for...say...2019 years.
It may be true that you have read about the Bible from a variety of sources. It may be true you have read the Bible front to cover 100 times over. Lots of secular scholars have done so, and still can't find anything reasonable in it. But the same is true for other's, who come to the opposite conclusion.
"As for us cherry-picking verses to prove our points, what exactly are Religious Absolutist Trolls doing?"
If a religious absolutist is cherry picking verses to prove the existence of God, then he/she does not have a full understanding of the text or the religion. This is exactly my point, It is not valid for either "side" to do this. In order to understand the religion, you have to understand the bible IN CONTEXT front to cover, understand the historical context of the time, understand the life of Christ who claimed to be the Savior, and understand the 2000 years of history since He walked the earth (btw, it is not much disputed that Jesus DID walk the earth at that time, the only thing in question is whether He performed miracles. There is even evidence of this, but too difficult to objectively know for sure.)
"Assuming this “holier-than-thou” attitude"
Generalizing about a group of people is not helpful to constructive dialogue. Just as I have seen atheists don't like being generalized due to the large range of beliefs/nonbeliefs that exist within that "label", the same goes for religious peoples. Yes, there are thousands of Christians groups that would hold this attitude, no different than the attitude of atheists looking down on religious people. But in order for us to continue, please remove me from the generalization. I DO NOT BELIEVE I AM HOLIER THAN THOU. I respect you, and admire you. I just want to a provide perspective, one that 30+ years traveling all over the Levant and beyond could not provide you with.
@DoesAtheismEvenMakeSense
Only 2019? Christianity had no criticism before that?
Forgive me if I am not sympathetic to the plight of christianity criticism, they only been the most dominant religion/power on the planet for the last 1000 years or so, however, it does look like it will be finally overtaken by islam and the "nones" in the next 100 years based on current trends. The amount of power and wealth christianity has and has enjoyed over the last 1000 years or so is truly immense and is only recently beginning to fade now in some parts of the world.
One would think a book written with direction from an all powerful and all knowing god as one of the few avenues of instruction and rule giving would be a tad more effective then "some" people that study the bible coming to the conclusion that it is "reasonable." I suppose it is the devil's fault? Or we are born in "sin" that the bible is so ineffective? Seriously, 7.5 billion people alive today, 100+ billion people have lived and died, and I would say only ~10 billion people that read the bible and decided it was reasonable? That is less then 10% success rate, you would think an all mighty god would be just a tad more effective then that. He created everything it looks like he set himself up to fail 9 out of 10 times or more. And as Christianity continues to wane, it looks like the "christian god" will likely have his "success" rate only fall from there.
Who decides what the context is? Certainly not god, he is mum on the issue, (maybe because he does not exist?) Oh so it is priest/clergy/religious leaders that are heavily invested in their religion that decides what the context is? Awful convenient to that group of people.
You mean the historical content of: 95+% of the population did not have the reading skills to read to the level that the bible was written? That average life spans was in the 30's, slavery was accepted and considered required for a functioning society? A world in constant state of war compared to today? A world where if a woman was not married to a man her choices were either to be a nun (if very lucky,) or to sell her body or starve to death along with any children she may have?
Actually that is quite disputed, by a strong majority of everyone alive today. (Do you think non abrahamic religions think jesus was alive?) If historical record is any indication, the Jesus name did not even show up until 100's of years after the supposed person died. Yes there is also question of he performed miracles, but those are more obvious questions to ask, as saying someone lived at a certain time is not a very large stretch, but curing sick and raising from the dead, now those are claims that you need to back if you don't want people to think you are just making stuff up.
Agreed.
Great if true, I remain a bit skeptical though. If you respected and admired the atheist position about god, would you not then seriously consider that position may be correct?
I am actually interested in that perspective, so what perspective have you gotten doing 30 years of traveling? What have you found?
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"One would think a book written with direction from an all powerful and all knowing god as one of the few avenues of instruction and rule giving would be a tad more effective then "some" people that study the bible coming to the conclusion that it is "reasonable." I suppose it is the devil's fault? Or we are born in "sin" that the bible is so ineffective? Seriously, 7.5 billion people alive today, 100+ billion people have lived and died, and I would say only ~10 billion people that read the bible and decided it was reasonable? That is less then 10% success rate, you would think an all mighty god would be just a tad more effective then that. He created everything it looks like he set himself up to fail 9 out of 10 times or more. And as Christianity continues to wane, it looks like the "christian god" will likely have his "success" rate only fall from there."
This is actually well stated. I haven't confirmed the numbers to be true, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Unlike Islam, Christianity does not state that we should take over the world. It is actually the opposite. It is said in Revelations that eventually Christianity will cease to exist and the world will end some time after. Some priests believe this could be (not a fact, because we just don't know) when the world runs out of Christians. Sure, you could simply shrug this off as fear tactic to maintain membership, but who knows? Yes, evangelizing is encourage to some extent (I'm talking strictly from Orthodoxy, I know there are religious that base their whole belief around this), but our main focus is inward preservation. Although I would love to see more people consider Christianity, it does not matter to me one way or another. Our relationship with God is completely personal, and as a matter of fact, we are told to practice in secret.
"Great if true, I remain a bit skeptical though. If you respected and admired the atheist position about god, would you not then seriously consider that position may be correct?"
I never said I don't respect or admire atheists, I've only said I disagree. Like you feel you have more evidence to the contrary of God's existence, I have more evidence that God does exist. I wasn't always religious, just like a lot of you weren't always atheist. I am not stupid by any stretch of the means, and some of the most intelligent people I know are Christian. This includes lawyers, professors, doctors, phDs from MIT. Some arguments against God I actually feel are pretty strong, and I will admit that, no one said being a Christian is easy. The thing is all of the atheist arguments put together, so far, are not enough to make me switch. And as long as I am not convinced, I will practice as fully as committed as possible. Just like our Christian heroes that are killed for their belief, when Christianity becomes illegal (already heading towards this), I will still practice. And when my life is threatened for my belief, I will gladly die. Until I am convinced that God doesn't exist.
Okay. Are you guys ready for this? I am prepared to give you what you want...an honest reflection of where I stand.
Rereading my above response, I have realized I may be a little more "unbending" that I may have believed. I wasn't trying to be deceitful, but honest. And in order to stay honest, I have to admit that I will never leave Christianity. Although my understanding will waiver over time, I am an absolutist in my defense and belief. Where I did not lie, is that I am willing to die for my beliefs. Where I did misrepresent myself (though not intentionally) is that I would consider the atheist standpoint. The reason I am able to say this and still maintain my dignity is that just as I will never prove empirically that God exists, neither with you be able to provide evidence against it. ( I am not putting burden of proof on you). It consists of us both interpreting what we have seen/read, and responding to it. What I have obtained through my beliefs is so awesome, that I can't imagine I am wrong. I am willing to die for that belief. I will promise this though, although my personal political vote is based on my understanding of the human being, I will not force my beliefs on you unless I feel it is best for society. Just as you may vote to withdraw troops from the East for whatever personal belief you have, I will make my vote based on my personal beliefs. And I promise, I am not going to attempt to convert you, only offer my perspective if asked.
Well that is a monstrous caveat.
Funny you say you are willing to die FOR your beliefs. Me, I ain't. Instead I shall die WITH my beliefs. HUGE difference.
rmfr
@ DAE
Wow...just wow, the sheer arrogance of your post right there sums up just about everything loathsome about religions. "I will not force my beliefs on you unless I feel it is best for society."
Such humblebrag, " I am not going to attempt to convert you, only offer my perspective if asked." Then why the blue fuck did you come here, an Atheist Forum and start a thread??
Yes you are an absolutist and one of the worst variety. Cloaking your true arrogance in faux humility, entering what you think is a lion's den of atheists, poking at them with your first thread. That isn't being humble, that is overweening arrogance. I wasn't trying to be deceitful, but honest. No you were and are not, you are being mendacious and arrogant masking it in a veneer of politeness and demurity.
I have experienced enough to be utterly aware of such tactics, motives and real practises.
Plus "BTW" the existence of any kind of Jesus is now very much in dispute as more and more early texts are discovered, and the contemporary evidence for such a person as described in the gospels still stands at zero, nothing, nada, zilch.
Everything in this comment is false, man. Everything you post in response to my comments do nothing except attack who I am as a person. I am doing nothing except trying to be honest. It is you, who is dishonest, by pretending like you have it all figured out. I never said I know everything. And yes, I have "poked" you guys, but it was meant to be fun. Everyone here keeps saying they are not afraid to speak what's on their mind, and I'm offended then leave. So I can't do the same?
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