The "Tomb" is illogical among other things.

38 posts / 0 new

Sun, 01/21/2018 - 04:05

#32

bigbill

[several paragraphs of copyrighted material removed by AR moderator; do not use our community's platform to violate the law]

Sun, 01/21/2018 - 04:14

(Reply to #32) #33

Old man shouts ...

Come on AB, one verifiable

Come on AB, one verifiable contemporary source for any of the apostles, events or claims in the NT that can be verified. Once again you have given supposition, Not hard supportable evidence.

Even your lengthy quote has this did you not read it?
"By the middle of the 2nd century it becomes evident that a great many different and often contradictory passages of holy scripture are circulating among the various Christian churches, each claiming to offer the truth. (There is even a Gospel according to Judas Iscariot.) Which of these shall be accepted as the official canon? This becomes a subject of urgent debate among church leaders.

By the end of the century it is widely agreed that four Gospels, the Epistles of Paul and the Acts of the Apostles are authentic. But it is not until 367 that a list is circulated by Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, which finally establishes the content of the New Testament."

NOT ONE SKERRICK OF EVIDENCE FOR A JESUS OR CHRISTOS contemporaneous to his alleged life or death exists. Why will you not just accept this?

Sun, 01/21/2018 - 04:07

#34

bigbill

http://www.historyworld.net

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=aa1...

Sun, 01/21/2018 - 13:06

#35

Cognostic

First of all, the New

First of all, the New Testament is 27 different books. These books were selected to be part of the official cannon out of hundreds of available books being used at the time.
The Book of Wars of the Lord:
The Book of Jasher:
The annals of Jehu;
The treatise of the book of the Kings:
The record book of records,
The Acts of Solomon:
The Sayings of Hozai:
The Chronicles of David:
Jude quotes from two uninspired books that were widely read during the first century:
The Chronicles of Samuel, Nathan, Gad:
Samuels book:
The records of Nathan the prophet
The Prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite:
The Treatise of the Prophet Iddo:
Paul's inspired letter to the church at Laodicea:
Paul's first letter to Corinth,
The Book of Remembrance:
The Book of Life:
The Book of Judgment
The book with seven seals:
Book in angel's hand:
Infancy Gospel of Thomas
Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew
Syriac Infancy Gospel
History of Joseph the Carpenter
Life of John the Baptist.
Didymus the Blind
Gospel of the Ebionites
Gospel of the Hebrews
Gospel of the Nazarenes
Gospel of Marcion
Gospel of Mani
Gospel of Apelles
Gospel of Bardesanes
Gospel of Basilides
Gospel of Thomas (Possibly the oldest gospel we have.)
Gospel of Peter
Gospel of Nicodemus
Gospel of Bartholomew
Questions of Bartholomew
Resurrection of Jesus Christ
Apocryphon of James (also called the "Secret Book of James")
Book of Thomas the Contender
Dialogue of the Saviour
Gospel of Judas (also called the "Gospel of Judas Iscariot")
Gospel of Mary (also called the "Gospel of Mary Magdalene")
Gospel of Philip
Greek Gospel of the Egyptians (distinct from the Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians)
The Sophia of Jesus Christ
Coptic Apocalypse of Paul (distinct from the Apocalypse of Paul)
Gospel of Truth
Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter (distinct from the Apocalypse of Peter)
Pistis Sophia
Second Treatise of the Great Seth
Apocryphon of John (also called the "Secret Gospel of John")
Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians (distinct from the Greek Gospel of the Egyptians)
Trimorphic Protennoia
Acts of Andrew
Acts of Barnabas
Acts of John
Acts of Mar Mari
Acts of the Martyrs
Acts of Paul
Acts of Paul and Thecla
Acts of Peter
Acts of Peter and Andrew
Acts of Peter and Paul
Acts of Peter and the Twelve
Acts of Philip
Acts of Pilate
Acts of Thomas
Acts of Timothy
Acts of Xanthippe, Polyxena, and Rebecca
Epistle of Barnabas
Epistles of Clement
Epistle of the Corinthians to Paul
Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans
Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians
Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians
Epistle to Diognetus
Epistle to the Laodiceans (an epistle in the name of Paul)
Epistle to Seneca the Younger (an epistle in the name of Paul)
Third Epistle to the Corinthians - accepted in the past by some in the Armenian Orthodox church.
Apocalypse of Paul (distinct from the Coptic Apocalypse of Paul)
Apocalypse of Peter (distinct from the Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter)
Apocalypse of Pseudo-Methodius
Apocalypse of Thomas (also called the Revelation of Thomas)
Apocalypse of Stephen (also called the Revelation of Stephen)
First Apocalypse of James (also called the First Revelation of James)
Second Apocalypse of James (also called the Second Revelation of James)
The Shepherd of Hermas
Apostolic Constitutions (church regulations supposedly asserted by the apostles)
Book of Nepos
Canons of the Apostles
Cave of Treasures (also called The Treasure)
Clementine literature
Didache (possibly the first written catechism)
Liturgy of St James
Penitence of Origen
Prayer of Paul
Sentences of Sextus
Physiologus
Book of the Bee

I'M FRIGGING TIRED. AND NOT EVEN HALF WAY THROUGH THE LIST. And you want to pretend that you know the "Bible" was written in the First Century? Hogwash! All of these books and all of the books in the bible were written at different times and someplace between 66–70 CE to 500 CE and a bit of the plagerized and added stuff up to the 1700s. Some of the books we can date, some we can't. Some we have and some we don't. Many are in bits and pieces and in such a mess that we are not sure what we have.

It is completely absurd to assert that 'THE BIBLE" was written in the first century. Pick a book and you might make an argument for it, but the BIBLE? That's just a silly assertion. Finally; even if a book was started in the first century by the time it made its way to you it whas changed thousands of times. If the Bible is the word of God - you don't have it. There is nothing that can be proved to be original in our bible today because we have no idea at all what an original bible looked like or said,. No one has ever seen one.

Mon, 01/22/2018 - 15:23

(Reply to #35) #36

jonthecatholic

"There is nothing that can be

"There is nothing that can be proved to be original in our bible today because we have no idea at all what an original bible looked like or said,. No one has ever seen one."

-Given the absurdly large number of early copies of the books of the New Testament (as opposed to other works in the ancient world), we can actually replicate the original to a very high degree of accuracy.

Mon, 01/22/2018 - 15:34

(Reply to #36) #37

Old man shouts ...

Fail again JoC The earliest

Fail again JoC The earliest alleged manuscript of a New Testament text is a business-card-sized fragment from the Gospel of John, Rylands Library Papyrus P52, which may be as early as the first half of the 2nd century.But scholars have recently argued is in fact anything up to 3rd century.

"a business card sized fragment" that isnt contemporary...There are no "absurdly large" number of copies anywhere. The earliest stories date between 30 and fifty years after the death of the supposed messiah.And they are all copies of the purported originals in a different language and cultural context some 100 years later.

Please, basic research JoC otherwise Hitchens razor applies again.

No records, no evidence.

Sun, 01/21/2018 - 20:49

#38

David Killens

The history of putting

The history of putting information or thoughts to a permanent record goes back to at least 3,500 years BC. And historical scholars have a wealth of such artifacts to investigate. The Babylonians had a star catalog 1,200 years BC.

But let us get back to the Romans and crucifixion. The Romans were very smart and cunning, their accomplishments and history tells a tale of a very adaptable people who had a lot figured out. When they decided to crucify someone, it was to make an example, the old "do not do that or this will happen to you". So the story of a crucifixion on a hill does make sense. But they fully understood that you do not make martyrs out of anyone. Thus the reason for armed guards. They were also there to make sure the tormented person was not given any relief in any way. They were also there to make sure no one stole the body. Because the end goal was to have an ugly public execution/public example, then ensure all traces of the body were never available for anyone to use as a rally point for any insurrection.

Would any wealthy person be stupid enough to go against the Romans, to obtain and bury the body in any form of a respectful manner? Back in those days, that usually led to charges of treason, insurrection, and a host of anti-leadership accusations.

So this entire tale does not bear the burden of common sense, let alone in being recorded.

IMO the Romans did crucify someone, at the behest of the local people in power. They most likely considered this a local matter, at best. They performed the actions, but they were not the ones who decided to kill some wandering hippy.

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