I want the bible to not be the word of god, but its getting harder for me to believe that it isnt because alot of bible prophecies have seemingly come to pass, does anybody have rational explanations as to why so many prophecies have seemingly come true?
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Howdy, Rick.
Welcome. Pray tell, in what way, shape, or form have ANY such prophecies "seemingly come true"? And, just a suggestion, but you might want to be specific and list a couple of those prophecies that are most concerning to you.
The most accurate i found was in daniel 9 " After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary."
The annointed one (jesus) was put to death and a few decades later the city of jerusalem and the temple were destroyed
How do you know Jesus was the anointed one?
Technichally I dont but the fact that the bible claims he is along with the fact that his death preceded the destruction of jerusalem and the temple worries me greatly
So your getting your prophecy from the bible, then getting the information that the prophecy came true from the bible...
Can you not see the problem with your line of reasoning?
Jesus death was the only one that came before the destruction of jerusalem and the temple
@Rickswordfish
Jesus was the only death that came before the destruction of jerusalem and the temple?
Really? Who told you that? Why doesn't your "Bull shit meter" not flash white hot on that one? Should be obvious to just about anyone plenty of people died before the destruction of jerusalem.
rICKSWORDFISH: That is not an example. You have said absolutely nothing . Please cite your alleged prophecy and the event that fulfilled it.
Its common knowledge that jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70 ad by the romans and that jesus was killed a few decades before that
@Rickswordfish: Please cite the prophecy and the exact act that fulfilled the prophecy. So far you have not done that.
Are you trolling me ive done so multiple times, "After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[g] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary." This is the prophecy it was fulfilled by the death of jesus and the destruction of jerusalem and the temple
After 62 sevens? That the fuck is that?
The anointed one? Have you any idea at all how many people were anointed? How in the fuck do you get to Jesus?
Put to death? Nothing about a crucifixion.
The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary." What city and what sanctuary. FAILS FOR A LACK OF SPECIFICITY.
THERE IS NO PROPHECY. YOU ARE READING ALL SORTS OF SHIT INTO IT. NOT EVEN MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANS BELIEVE THERE IS PROPHECY HERE.
"Daniel's Seventy Weeks Prophecy
Dispensationalists claim the seventy weeks prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27 predicts the crucifixion of Jesus and the Antichrist, in which the Antichrist will enter a third temple and commit a blasphemous act. This is false. According to Daniel 12, the Day of Judgement was supposed to happen 3 and a half years after Antiochus' persecution of the Jews in the 2nd Century BC. This would make Daniel a false prophet but most Christians still insist that it's describing a future Great Tribulation.
Instead of predicting Jesus, most contemporary scholars think The Messiah in verse 26 (In Hebrew Translations, Messiah is translated as Prince) is Onias the third, a pious religious leader who opposed the Hellenization of the Jews and was murdered. Jews considered religious leaders and rabbis to be "annointed ones".
The coming prince that will destroy Jerusalem and commit the Abomination of Desolation is describing Antiochus Epiphanes' reign of terror against the Jews during the Maccabean Revolt, not the Antichrist. Historical data shows that Antiochus committed the "abomination that causes desolation" when he sacrificed a pig to a statue of Zeus in the 2nd temple and forced the Jews to end their daily sacrifices. This occurred 3 and a half years after he established a covenant with the Jewish people and subsequently annulled it. The Books of Maccabees describes Antiochus Epiphanes in greater detail and goes so far as to describe Antiochus in the same manner as the coming prince in the seventy weeks prophecy. The entire chapter of Daniel 11 is obviously describing Antiochus Epiphanes. Antiochus considered himself divine and God incarnate.
All references to the Abomination of Desolation in the New Testament are basically rehashes of the Book of Daniel. Paul wrote an epistle around 50 AD that said the "man of lawlessness" would enter the second temple and declare himself divine. However, since the temple was destroyed in 70 AD and none of Paul's prediction came true as Paul said it would, Christians have reinterpreted the prophecy to mean that the Antichrist would enter a revived 3rd temple and declare himself divine. This proves that Paul was oblivious about the temple's imminent destruction and was probably a false prophet."
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_prophecies#Daniel.27s_Seventy_Wee...
WHAT'S YOUR NEXT BEST PROPHECY --- WE ARE CERTAINLY DONE WITH THIS ONE.
I've read that article its wrong theres nothing in daniel 12 that says when the day of judgement was supposed to happen
After 62 sevens? That the fuck is that?
The anointed one? Have you any idea at all how many people were anointed? How in the fuck do you get to Jesus?
Put to death? Nothing about a crucifixion.
The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary." What city and what sanctuary. FAILS FOR A LACK OF SPECIFICITY.
THERE IS NO PROPHECY. YOU ARE READING ALL SORTS OF SHIT INTO IT. NOT EVEN MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANS BELIEVE THERE IS PROPHECY HERE.
"Daniel's Seventy Weeks Prophecy
Dispensationalists claim the seventy weeks prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27 predicts the crucifixion of Jesus and the Antichrist, in which the Antichrist will enter a third temple and commit a blasphemous act. This is false. According to Daniel 12, the Day of Judgement was supposed to happen 3 and a half years after Antiochus' persecution of the Jews in the 2nd Century BC. This would make Daniel a false prophet but most Christians still insist that it's describing a future Great Tribulation.
Instead of predicting Jesus, most contemporary scholars think The Messiah in verse 26 (In Hebrew Translations, Messiah is translated as Prince) is Onias the third, a pious religious leader who opposed the Hellenization of the Jews and was murdered. Jews considered religious leaders and rabbis to be "annointed ones".
The coming prince that will destroy Jerusalem and commit the Abomination of Desolation is describing Antiochus Epiphanes' reign of terror against the Jews during the Maccabean Revolt, not the Antichrist. Historical data shows that Antiochus committed the "abomination that causes desolation" when he sacrificed a pig to a statue of Zeus in the 2nd temple and forced the Jews to end their daily sacrifices. This occurred 3 and a half years after he established a covenant with the Jewish people and subsequently annulled it. The Books of Maccabees describes Antiochus Epiphanes in greater detail and goes so far as to describe Antiochus in the same manner as the coming prince in the seventy weeks prophecy. The entire chapter of Daniel 11 is obviously describing Antiochus Epiphanes. Antiochus considered himself divine and God incarnate.
All references to the Abomination of Desolation in the New Testament are basically rehashes of the Book of Daniel. Paul wrote an epistle around 50 AD that said the "man of lawlessness" would enter the second temple and declare himself divine. However, since the temple was destroyed in 70 AD and none of Paul's prediction came true as Paul said it would, Christians have reinterpreted the prophecy to mean that the Antichrist would enter a revived 3rd temple and declare himself divine. This proves that Paul was oblivious about the temple's imminent destruction and was probably a false prophet."
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_prophecies#Daniel.27s_Seventy_Wee...
WHAT'S YOUR NEXT BEST PROPHECY --- WE ARE CERTAINLY DONE WITH THIS ONE.
Well what is the top three most convincing prophecies (convincing to you)?
Regarding Daniel - a book that in one chapter makes a prediction, and later in the book, asserts that it came true, is not evidence.
In fact, there is no historical evidence that said crucifixion took place nor that Yeshua of the bible even existed at all, with the most likely explanation for the mythology around him being that Yeshua is some combination of many individuals, some real and some legend.
Of all the non-compelling reasons to believe, prophecy is near the top of the list.
@Rickswordfish: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...... I'm sorry! That is the funniest thing that has been said in the forum all year. Still, it is October and you have two more months for someone to knock you out of the lead.
THERE IS NO BIBLICAL PROPHECY.
If you read the Gospels you will read about Jesus fulfilling bla bla bla prophecy. HINT: The New Testament was written after the Old Testament by JEWS!!! Jesus was written in to meet the demands of a religious community that believed he was fulfilling prophecy. If Jesus did things, he did them to make himself fulfill prophecy JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER FIRST CENTURY PROPHET OF THE TIME. *You know, back when ignorant people believed in things like prophecy.*
Here is your SECOND HINT: (THE CRITERIA FOR A PROPHECY TO BE TRUE).
1. It must be accurate. It must be true.
2. It must be in the Bible. (Clearly Stated)
3. It must be precise and unambiguous.
4. It must be improbable: A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it reasonably could be the result of a pure guess, because foreknowledge requires a person to actually know something true, while a correct guess doesn't mean that the guesser knows anything. (IF I PREDICT A WAR WILL BREAK OUT BETWEEN TAIWAN AND CHINA, THAT IS NOT PROPHECY. IT IS A POSSIBILITY GIVEN THE POLITICAL CLIMATE BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES.)
NOTHING IN THE BIBLE MEETS THESE CRITERIA - NOTHING!
Please feel free to cite your favorite Biblical Prophecy or just look it up on Google with the word "debunked" after it.
Nebuchadnezzar would destroy Tyre Debunked: He never entered the city.
Egypt would be a barren wasteland: Ha ha ha ha ha ... Never happened... No humans will walk through Egypt... oops! No animals will walk through Egypt; Double oops. No human will live in Egypt for 40 years. JUST WRONG!
Nebuchadnezzar will conquer Egypt: never happened.
The Nile will dry up (Ezekiel): Never Happened
Ezekiel 28:24-26 predicts that Israel will live in peace with its neighbors: HA HA HA HA HA HA --- We know for a fact that one is a miss.
So why are you having a problem with prophecy? Honestly? You are too damn lazy to look for the FACTS. There is no other reason.
Alot of experts believe Jesus was real and I agree with them I just think (or rather hope) that the gospels are exaggerated stories about him
Ding ding ding ding ding, appeal to authority fallacy, we have a winner.
How many of those "experts" are not Christian's or even religious at all? What objective evidence can they, or you, demonstrate that if Jesus existed he was anything other than human?
Lastly, and this is particularly germane to your thread OP. how does a prediction coming true, no matter how unlikely, evidence anything supernatural has occurred? Please bear in mind that we know for a fact people can make predictions against seemingly impossible odds, and they come true all the time by random chance, lottery winners are one obvious example.
The shroud of turin
A forgery from the middle ages, it's been definitively tested and proved to be a fake.
The shroud has been so profoundly debunked that the Vatican does not even call it a relic any more, but rather "an icon". After allowing the last test, that was it, the Vatican will never allow it to receive scientific testing.
This isn't even in the category of a prophesy, in any theistic definition it would be classified as a miracle or relic.
Re: Rickster - "The shroud of turin"
Wow. Really? Might as well have said "Cloud of Urine", because at this point he's basically just pissing into the wind.
Just because we have no record of egypt being deserted or the nile drying up doesnt mean it didnt happen
You said you had proof of a prophecy. Please cite your prophecy and the act that fulfilled it. You are changing the subject again. (What you present here is an "Argument from Ignorance fallacy." ) You can not prove it didn't happen so it did. NO. THAT IS NOT THE WAY LOGIC WORKS IN ANY UNIVERSE WE ARE AWARE OF.
Cite your prophecy and the event that met its conditions.
Daniel 9 fulfilled by the death of jesus and the destruction of jerusalem and the temple
The Exodus is pure fiction. It is hard to imagine someone could believe the Exodus story, but not believe in god. Just saying.
@Rickswordfish
"Just because we have no record of egypt being deserted or the nile drying up doesnt mean it didnt happen"
Actually, the history of the Nile valley has been documented for thousands of years. It is also in the geological record.
You are the one asserting that the Nile dried up, it is on you to prove your statement. Just stating "oh, it might have happened" is less than a weak argument.
Rickswordfish
"Just because we have no record of egypt being deserted or the nile drying up doesnt mean it didnt happen"
Well let's test that absurd rationale shall we.
@Rickswordfish
Just because we have no record of garden fairies riding unicorns when nobody was watching, doesnt mean it didnt happen.
Well looky looky here, your reasoning has either evidence garden fairies riding unicorns, or it is a risible appeal to ignorance fallacy.
To be clear, it's the latter...
Argumentum ad ignorantiam....look it up, learn what it means, and don't use it again please.
True enough. Nor does it mean it did . All that no record/proof actually proves is that there is no record or proof.
Christians commonly say their claims are be true because they have not been proved to be false. This is called "trying to shift the burden of proof", which always rests with the person making the claim .
"
See Russell's Teapot
"Russell's teapot is an analogy, formulated by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970), to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making unfalsifiable claims, rather than shifting the burden of disproof to others.
Russell specifically applied his analogy in the context of religion.[1] He wrote that if he were to assert, without offering proof, that a teapot, too small to be seen by telescopes, orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, he could not expect anyone to believe him solely because his assertion could not be proven wrong.
Russell's teapot is still invoked in discussions concerning the existence of God, and has had influence in various fields and media. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
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