1) YOU should read up many of what you unbelievrs argue.. you keep refering to the Old Testament for your points - because if you did read up, you'd know that the New Testament comes with a new covenant of which brought a lot of changes to the requirements of Christians -
2) From the Old Testament into the New, as Jesus' life, actions and death on the cross had a huge impact on that and so for example "an eye for an eye" was changed into "turn the other cheek" and so on,,, as for the 'hidden molesters' that are caught are mostly caught and hidden within the Catholic religion and a lot of the catholic religion doesn't follow the actual bible ( even the new pope is really not following it much for sure!) and there are molesters EVERYWHERE, in every job, role, position in the world,,,,
Note:
3) We have just learned, usually thru rough times, that it's better and much more helpful and comforting in soooo many ways, to turn to God for strength and/or peace of mind or for love or whatever we need instead of to count on ourselves or any other human who also can't help us,,, and then you will understand why we Christians are so calm and happy and forgiving etc.
--- p.s. Many of us felt just like you do too before we gave Him a chance - what do you have to lose after all (??) some hate? Some anger? Perhaps some loneliness or emptiness??i truly hope and pray you will give Him a chance to show you how awesome life can be with Him in it.
I will admit that The Old Testament is part of our heritage and the bible... give me all your criticism as I am actually on the basis of agnosticism but still consider myself Christian for now.. so do not worry about hurting my feelings.
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Ah; so what is right and wrong changes over time! Good to know!
Although I can get a hint of sarcasm in that.. you do actually have a point... if something is as strong in it's faith and bible as gods word then how come it needs change... should it be right from the get go as God is all perfect... but then again man created the bible from gods word.
Damn..!..
did someone leave a door open ?
they're coming out of the woodwork.....
@Alan Tiany
"the New Testament comes with a new covenant of which brought a lot of changes"..
NO.....not actually ...
MATTHEW
"5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
"we Christians are so calm and happy and forgiving etc"
Interesting self image you're trying to sell there.....I'm afraid it won't fly around here....we get to see the real "you."..
bigoted ,credulous ,uncaring ,superstitious ,self satisfied ,self aggrandising.......and now ,apparently self deluding.
@watchman
Re:Mathew 5:18
You must read the verse LITERALLY, not figuratively. It says "one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law". You see it is just the tittles and jots that don't change. Everything else is up for grabs. Beside my bible is the king james version. There are no jots and tittles there so everything is up for grabs.
I've been advocating for the creation of a VelcroBible™:
See you separate the old testament and the new testament (or maybe even subsections) with Velcro. Then when a nasty atheist mentions the old testament you can just rip the old testament part off and pretend it does not exist! Then later when you need the old testament (say to condemn homosexuals, or whatever), you just quickly reattach it!
Added with edit: See that chapter watchman mentioned (Mark Matthew 5); that totally needs to be separated by Velcro so it can be disposed of in a hurry when needed!
@Nyarlathotep...
Apologies....the mark verse should have been the matthew verse.....my bad.....thought I corrected it before any one had seen it....doesn't affect your point though.
@Alan Tiany
So if the old testament doesn't matter, why keep preaching it? The fact is YOU want things both ways. You use the old testament when it's convenient, but dismiss it when people point out it's fallacy. But let's just stick to the new testament....IT is FUCKED as well. Old, New, it doesn't matter because both are just a bunch of lies, hearsay, and figments of imaginations!
I have heard plenty of pentecostal sermons which were preached straight out of the Old Testament.
So the ten commandments no longer apply? Why then aren't you out raping and pillaging as you accuse atheists of doing given that we don't use your book as a moral guide. You cherry picking hypocrites simply want to have your cake and eat it too.
You sound reasonable and I am very surprised I have not heard this question before. Although I have anticipated it.
I can only speak for myself. I am not very knowledgeable about the bible compared to others on this site. However I went to a catholic high school and we learned about it and I have also read it and read about it on my own.
The reason I go after the old testament first is because of how bad and easy it is. It is really bad, stuff that is wrong for all ages, then as now. Genocide, misogyny, homophobia. Then you have the stuff that is utterly unimportant when it comes to a guide for life, eating pork, eating shellfish, the beginning of Numbers 1, the ancestries. Then there is the stuff that is science wrong. Creation story, pi, and --my personal favorite because I founded it on my own-- getting the number of stars utterly wrong. At one point Moses says the number of Israelites is as numerous as the stars. Deuteronomy 1:10 "Jehovah your God hath multiplied you, and lo, ye [are] to-day as the stars of the heavens for multitude;".
So as I see it there are 3 approaches.
Accept the whole OT as is: that's crazy. Utterly offends modern sensibilities.
Reject the whole OT: then the new testament makes much less sense.
Ignore some parts and emphasis other parts. That brings up a very real problem. How do you do that? At its best the NT gives scant and contradictory advice.
But the big problem is Mathew 5:18 "for, verily I say to you, till that the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the law, till that all may come to pass." This is a problematic verse. Basically it says you have to take the whole OT. Heaven and earth have not passed. Have they?
Super. SO you're throwing out the old testament. Awesome. That's a great start. So now that the OT is gone, so are the 10 commandments right? And since there is no OT, there is no original sin.... right And since there is no original sin, there is no need for jesus as savior. Right?
What happens in reality is that christians pick and choose from the OT. Slavery is bad. Ignore that part. Murder unruly children. Disregard. Kill brides that are not virgins...forget that. Slaughter men, women and children including the babies. Noooo. Don't tell us to ignore the OT because your dogma depends in it.
Well put.
And don't forget, that according to the Bible...
- Jesus explicitly said that the old law is still in effect (Mathew 5:17-19).
- Jesus did not condemn slavery, but instead instructed slaves to obey their masters (Ephesians 6:5, Colossians 3:22) and on multiple occasions spoke of brutal punishments for servants in his parables (Luke 12:47-48, Matthew 18:23-35, Matthew 25:14-30, Matthew 24:45-51).
Alan Tiany, you have been successfully brainwashed with the doctrine christians have been fooling themselves with for a couple millenia. You do not have the courage to question it for the sake of disproving your opposition because, logically, they became your opposition through education rather than indoctrination, and you are afraid of your mortality being the net result of following in their footsteps. This is also true of anyone maintaining a doctrine (belief system) regardless of culture or religious "branding".
In this regard you have come here seeking truth, which is the urging of your own closeted doubt, driving your inner Id to revelation one way or the other. Yours is one of hope for the immortal soul to conquer the mortal truth, but you simply cannot ignore the idea that many of your own kind find comfort and security in the secular truth. You cannot fathom that they can live normal lives without gods, religions and immortality awaiting them. You do not have that kind of inner strength so you defer to your indoctrination for comfort.
Only you can decide which makes a case for logic. That, and self-education. Read through the links if you dare. I doubt you will because you don't have the strength to seek truth when the dangling carrot of immortality (hope) lures you to reconsider. Good luck to you.
http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm
http://mama.indstate.edu/users/nizrael/jesusrefutation.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arian_controversy
http://www.bidstrup.com/bible2.htm
Jesus was quite content with the old book (why not you?)
Jesus fully supported everything in the Old Testament
Keep in mind, this is Jesus Christ saying this
“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19
“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)
“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)
"The Scripture cannot be broken," (NASB, Jn. 10:35).
3b) “All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness…” (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)
4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 “Whoever curses father or mother shall die” (Mark 7:10 NAB)
5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)
6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)
7) Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.” This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18