I have a right to smoke and I exercise that right. I smoke cigars every day. I know the consequences of that but I do it anyway. I do not smoke in public or indoors even at home. I don't even smoke in the presence of my dog for fear that I might cause him harm. I restrict my smoking to myself and don't inflict it on anyone else. I do not promote smoking. It's my choice and my choice alone. To smoke, you have to be of legal age. An age where you can make an informed educated choice and accept the responsibility for doing so. My cigars are severely taxed more than any other product. They have a warning label.
This should be the case with religion. Because religion is an individual right, not a public right. Those that sell religion are responsible for the harm that their product inflicts and it does inflict harm.
Religion just like tobacco is a product, a vise. It causes addiction in much the same way. You shouldn't be exposed to it until you are of an age to take responsibility and can make a choice to do so.
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Religion is more harmful because of the indoctrination aspect. We don't encourage our children to smoke.
Exactly ZeffD
@Mykcob4: "I have a right to smoke and I exercise that right."
I don't know where you smoke so you don't inflict it on anyone else. Perhaps you go out in a desert or along the median strip of an expressway. I only know from bitter experience that smoke drifts a long way. I've had neighbors whose wives kicked them out of the house to smoke at the far end of their backyards so the smoke drifted into my place. I was driven out of an apartment by smoking neighbors who thought their right to suck trumped my right to breathe.
"Religion just like tobacco is a product, a vise."
I think you mean "vice." But "vise" is right, too. With smoking or religion you're putting your head in a vise. One kills your mind, the other your lungs. I've known lots of smokers who wanted to quit, but I don't know any that succeeded. Religion can also get you hooked, either through the desire for heaven or the fear of hell.
Pushers and peddlers of both of these drugs are the worst kind of scum.
"I've known lots of smokers who wanted to quit, but I don't know any that succeeded."
I succeeded.
Well done. You must have some strong willpower.
Chantix rather than will power. I smoked 1 1/2 - 2 pkgs a day for over fifty years. It's been over two years since I stopped. I still want one, pretty much every day. I just don't have one though.
Well, Algebe, when I smoke do you smell it?
You might think smoking doesn't effect anyone else. You are, however, wrong. Just as not wearing a motorcycle helmet may seem to be a private decision, it increases medical and insurance costs for all. You may not get lung disease (or the helmetless rider may not have set that bike down - yet), but, on average, we all pay for it in the end.
@CyberLN My medical care doesn't affect you at all. I am a retired vet.
And how is your medical care paid for?
@CyberLN retired and active duty personnel has medical care that is paid for by the DoD and the VA. Maybe in a very indirect way, it effects your finances in the form of taxes but it is minuscule in how it affects you.
Just so you know I know the destructive and self-destructive effects of smoking. I have tried to make my contribution to it as small as I possibly can with the exception of not smoking. I started smoking after I retired. It is a crutch and a coping device for me. I don't drink, I don't even take aspirin. I suffer from PTSD have chronic pain and all the things that one suffers from when you have lived a hard very active life and you reach a certain age. I am not justifying my smoking or any smoking. I smoke. you want to judge me, fine do so. I am sure I could do the same to you if I tried. I will not.
@mykcob4: "Well, Algebe, when I smoke do you smell it?"
If you do it within a block of me, yes. I can smell smoke from about the same distance that you can hear hymn singing or preaching.
But the more important question for you is, when you smoke, do YOU smell it?
I believe you have the right to self destruction so long as you are old enough and do not harm anyone else. That's why I think all drugs should be legal, just like religion, for so long as they aren't selling it to children and they keep it out of politics.
@Harry Truman: "so long as you are old enough and do not harm anyone else"
By all means swallow it, suck it up your nose, shoot into a vein, or shove up your arse. But when you burn stuff, you affect the air that other people breathe. That's where your right conflicts with my freedom.
And really drug-taking doesn't mix well with naked flames. Around here we have morons driving down the freeway tossing lighted butts into dry grass, or burning down houses and apartment blocks by falling asleep in bed while smoking.
My favorite smoker of all time was a Salvation Army major who came to lecture our Sunday school class about the evils of drink and smoking. I don't think he even knew he had a cigarette in his mouth. But that was in the hazy smoke-filled days of the 1950s.
Well agebe, if I buy a plot next to your house and turn it into a garbage dump, that will depreciate the value if your house, and if I build a garden, that will appreciate the value of your house. That's because all if our actions affect those around us. My breathing emits carbon dioxide, which you say will melt the ice caps and kill all the polar bears somehow, yet I still have a right to breathe.
@Harry Truman: "My breathing emits carbon dioxide, which you say will melt the ice caps and kill all the polar bears somehow"
I don't think I ever said anything like that. All the carbon we breathe comes directly or indirectly from plants. To keep eating we need to grow more plants, so the CO2 we breathe out all gets recycled out of the atmosphere again. Humans as animals are therefore carbon neutral. So by all means keep on breathing with a clear conscience.
As a libertarian, do you believe you have the right to engage in any behavior, even if it's harmful to others?
Not if it's not directly harmful to others. But you can never completely eliminate behavior that has a negative effect on others since we do not live or die to ourselves. Smoking is mostly harmful to he smoker, and along as second hand smoke is limited to the extent that it can, I think people have the right to smoke.
Harry, Oh but they are selling it and the brainwash children. Plus they are very active politically.
@Mykcob3: "Oh but they are selling it and the brainwash children. Plus they are very active politically."
Are you talking about Big Tobacco or Big Religion here? I think the statement applies equally to both.
That is the problem with religion myckob, I guess we can't prohibit them from being politically active because of their religion, but we can prevent them from passing it into law.
Okay, we have gotten way off track here. Algebe didn't address the issue but took exception to me smoking. CyberLN accused me of causing her healthcare to go up.
This thread is about the reality that religion is a pervasive product not unlike smoking.
Harry, I don't think your last post was even close to a true analogy of the issue.
I was addressing algebe- either way, you are right- religion kills braincells, its the opium of the people, and parents don't belong giving kids dope.
My statement about was general not aimed at you Harry T.
I was addressing algebe- either way, you are right- religion kills braincells, its the opium of the people, and parents don't belong giving kids dope.