"Is forcing religion out of schools is just as bad as forcing it in to schools? (Irish Educational System)
Everything can be very dangerous if put in to a vulnerable mind in the wrong way and for the wrong reasons. If your hypothesis about religion being dangerous, then every single religious person would be dangerous and evil while every non religious person would be perfect. But that's not true, so I guess something else must be the problem. I think scientific statistics would back up that fact."While you may be right about religion you could say the same for almost everything in life. Children grow up with all the beliefs of their parents, whether that be democracy, communism, capitalism, etc. Their work ethic or lack off. Their political beliefs, their moral beliefs. The list is endless. It's how life works. There is nothing wrong with wanting your child to be raised as a catholic, Protestant, Muslim, etc."
My stance:
Faith can be very, very dangerous, can be used deliberately to implant it into the vulnerable mind of an innocent child, which is a grievous and wrong. While I don't necessarily disagree with religion being synonymous with other other beliefs.. it has one component that outweighs others and that is 'faith'. Faith' is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence. You are inherently praising a person saying "I believe in this with absolutely no evidence whatsoever." and worst of all can be used to indoctrinate and corrupt children's minds.
Saying that.
I don't necessarily mind 'Historicity of religion in general' being taught in schools as a subject but this could easily fit into a chapter in the 'History' class. Both the good and bad of religion and it's effects on society and history.
What I don't want:
1) The school and education should NOT be run by religion/church
2) Don't have a specific religious study i.e Christianity/Catholicism (basically a church, communion, confirmation, etc.)
3) Should not be taught as fact (as seen in some American Christian run schools)
"Let children learn about different faiths, let them notice their incompatibility, and let them draw their own conclusions about the consequences of that incompatibility. As for whether they are ‘valid,’ let them make up their own minds when they are old enough to do so. THE MAJORITY of children born into the world tend to inherit the beliefs of their parents, and that to me is one of the most regrettable facts of them all." -- Richard Dawkins
People always demand respect for their faith. Why should I respect someone who makes enormous claims on no evidence? And when confronted with that fact, says "I don't need any evidence, I have faith". I think extraordinary claims such as that they know not just that there is a God, but they know his mind, they know his instructions, they've had revealed truth from him. A claim like that demands extraordinary evidence. Instead of which they say 'How about no evidence at all and just take me on faith." Why am I supposed to respect that? I don't respect it. I suspect it." -- Christopher Hitchens
What are you guys opinions on this?
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Great article on Dawkins and his opinion on what should be the perfect education in Dublin.
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/richard-dawkins-is-right-children-need...
“Children do need to be protected so that they can have a proper education and not be indoctrinated in whatever religion their parents happen to have been brought up in”
I have no right to comment on what the Irish do. If they are not sick of religion by now it is their own damned fault. As for me, I am busy keeping religion out of U.S. schools.
It is being debated at the moment... Just would like some input especially from a country that has a church and state separation.
People are getting sick of it .. just that the church is still lingering on.
When the Irish are sick of churches running their lives they can put a separation clause into their constitution and commit to continuous struggle to keep the wall erect.
I would have expected the Irish to be thoroughly sick of the church by now. How many people have died because of Catholic-Protestant fighting and terrorism? Remember Omagh. How many women have died as a result of backstreet abortions, and how many people got AIDs, etc., because of the medieval anti-contraception laws that prevailed until very recently?
In my opinion, priests shouldn't be allowed to go within a kilometer of a school, let alone teach in them. They are dangerous for all kinds of reasons.
Agreed. As a person who currently goes to a catholic school, I can say with the upmost confidence, that there is some serious indoctrination happening. Forced prayers, forced masses, constant reference to God or the bible are just a few of the things happening. It just doesn't belong.
It's up to the Irish!
It is of course up to the Irish.......
BUT .................in the light of recent history...there can be no excuse for allowing this criminal organisation to have the near monopoly of running the education system....
Kids need to be taught ABOUT religion....they do not need to be taught a religion. and certainly not one that excludes all other world views.
Get rid.
I don't know if I'm considered Irish or not and I don't care. Legally, I'm an Irish and a British citizen and 'one law for all' is what I think is important. Obviously Irish schools and education are matters for the people who live in Ireland but that doesn't preclude comment from others.
Religion has everything to do with superstition and nothing to do with education. Nationality isn't what matters. I recall the Saudi argument is that Saudi Arabia is "different"....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShPciCVjMOg
but it is either better for children to attend religiously denominated schools or it isn't.
I recall a comment by a prominent Irish person who said that if religiously denominated schools had been abandoned in the 1960s, the 25 years of "troubles" could have been avoided. (Unfortunately I cannot recall who said it). From (pdf file):
http://conflictresearch.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/OU-For-God-Ulster-or-I...
It is clear that debate is needed on the impact of current educational structures on maintaining communal division. While there are multiple and overlapping ‘layers’ of division in Northern Irish society at the very least it is unhelpful in challenging the permanency of the divide when children essentially attend different schools depending on community background. For a number of interviewees the churches help maintain the community divide given their influence on the education system. Opinions varied between those who felt that the churches should not have a role in the education system, to those who felt that a grounding in a ‘Christian ethos’ was beneficial for young people.
Unquote.
I believe a recent debate in NI decided to retain the segregation. Perhaps the problem might be that the political support for those in power relies on the divide and vice versa.
On a personal note that might be of interest: My late father and I were proud of his service in the Irish Army and of mine in the British Army.
My opinion is that the subject Religion should be taught in schools as education about all religions and the alternative views. But religious faith has nothing to do in a school, and clergy should have an automatic restraining order to keep them away from all facilities for children.