Some antitheists strongly believe that all atheists should be this way. Do you agree or disagree with this position?
I'd also like to know if you're an antitheist or not.
I'm an antitheist because I hate how people indoctrinate children with this nonsense. I had to struggle for years to get that stuff out of my mind. I wish I had been taught critical thinking from an early age.
My antitheism is a private thing, though, unless I'm hanging out with other atheists.
I don't think an atheist has to be an antitheist. But every atheist should know what kind they are and why.
Subscription Note:
Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.
Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.
Some of us will have stronger feelings than others towards religion. When you stand on this side of the fence (atheism) i dont see how you can see all that BS and the problems it causes and not criticize it and openly oppose it. But that is MY opinion... When people start telling you what to do and how to do it, starts sounding a bit like doctrine...right?
Should you confront theists? Maybe you should. Should you just ignore theists and keep going your merry way? Maybe you should. It all depends on what YOU think.
My own personal view is that I have no problem with anyone believing anything that they want to, no matter how illogical & stupid it may seem to me. However there are areas where religion crosses one of a number of lines & I am very much against that. These lines include:
Objecting to, or seeking to ban me expressing an opinion that these beliefs are illogical & stupid.
Exercising undue control over the government (I live in a country which has reserved places for bishops in one of the parliamentary houses).
Religious control over state funded schools
Exemption from the law on religious grounds
Charitable status (& together with it, tax exemptions) for non-charitable activity.
The creation of a parallel legal system along religious principles.
It makes me nauseous to think of the religious having a special place in government. I feel for you and I hope someday that privilege is revoked.
@Puzzled Primate
I am opposed to those who...
- claim to know things that they cannot know.
- think that they are infallible and beyond questioning.
- wants everyone else to join them in their unfounded beliefs.
- base their decisions on unfounded faith instead of knowledge and facts.
- oppose reason and logic.
- try to corrupt proper education with their unfounded beliefs.
- oppress those who do not share their unfounded beliefs.
- oppress or discriminate women.
- oppress or discriminate children.
- oppress or discriminate people based on race.
- oppress or discriminate people based on their sexual orientation.
- think their faith gives them the right to kill, terrorize or enslave others.
So, am I am an antitheist?
Theistic religions are in my opinion a global, organized clusterfuck of all of the above characteristics. So yes, I would most certainly say I am an antitheist.
But it's not as simple as that.
There are a lot of people who adhere to a specific theistic religion, but are reasonable, humane, selfless and so on. They are often not particularly religious, but still identify themselves as part of their religion. As long as they don't oppose proper education, don't oppose separation of religion and state or discriminate others based on unfounded beliefs, I am not opposed to their beliefs. (Although I personally think they should let go of their indoctrinated beliefs.)
Conversely, there are those who do not adhere to a theistic religion, but have all sorts of superstitions. These beliefs can still be the basis for all kinds of delusions and cause intolerance, criminal neglect, even human sacrifice.
Naturally, I am opposed to these superstitious beliefs as much as those based in theistic religions. The term "antitheist" isn't quite correct for me, but I don't have a better one for the moment.
All that said, there is no justification to bash atheists for not being antitheists. It's fine as long as people have personal non-damaging beliefs. But I would like to ask everyone who has the stomach for it, to make their own investigation into the harm that religion does.
It's scary that the most powerful nation on Earth may soon have a president that bases his decisions on personal unfounded beliefs, like "god is on our side" or that "the end times are upon us". I think that the rest of the free world should somehow be allowed to vote as well, as the person elected will have effects way beyond the borders of the country.
It amazes me how religion survives criticism and keeps attracting people to it like flies to shit. What is it about Amuuurrica that makes this stuff so immune to reality? Is it just a failing of public education or maybe willful ignorance? I agree, if a belief is just a harmless personal stupidity than so be it. It's just an annoyance like midges flying around my face. But believers drag their kids into it which propagates the nonsense and makes the kids retarded in critical thinking. I really do want to be an outspoken antitheist, but I admit I don't have the balls and I fear backlash from Christards. I wish Hitch was still with us.
well, america is still pretty young and we have myths about our special place in the world. We may have been unique as a social structure in centuries past, but the limitations of the great american experiment have shown over the years. If you look into american history, america has had periods of religious revival, and I'm sure that trend shapes things here. Personally, I don't care what people believe or do; I even go to church. But when this surrounding belief makes me blind to my own problems, that is where I take issue.
Yes, America is youthful and full of optimism. It's like a kid who is full of energy while the parents just want to sleep. I can see how myths keep this optimism going. Like the Aeneid of the Roman Empire.
@VPT
"well, america is still pretty young and we have myths about our special place in the world."
The U.N., MSM and most every TV show has laid that myth to rest.
We all know that all wisdom and morality comes from shitdick third world hellholes whose people enslave and slaughter each other in the name of allah while receiving grants from the U.S. to improve their human rights records. America's special place is being their bitch while they destroy the U.S. using its own legal system.
I agree with previous comments made about leaving people alone to believe whatever they want to, as long as it does not affect me in any way shape or form.
I would never try to convince anybody of a religious persuasion that god does not exist, so they should not try to persuade me that god does.
Live and let live is what I say, most people are decent regardless of their beliefs.
My personal desire is to bite my tongue and peacefully coexist with others. Yet I'm torn between peace and activism. Example - my niece is becoming Christian because of influence from evangelical friends at her school. I just can't stay quiet. I want to keep her from this, so I've talked to her about critically examining things and then said it's up to her, but use reason and choose wisely. I have to let her follow her own path. When a family member or friend is swallowing poison, it's so alarming to see it happen. But when it comes to people who aren't family and friends, biting my tongue is the wisest way to go.
Good thinking, trying get her to think critically.
It's best to give people the tools to sort it out for themselves. That and being available to talk about any questions she has about religion.
I'm fortunate to live close to my sister, so I see my niece often. She's a teenager, and you know how that goes. I can't be around too much or I'll get the teenage attitude and brush off. So I wait for invites from my sister and do a stealth interjection if the topic comes up. Example - last time, my niece mentioned stories about saints she learned in her religion classes at church. You probably know that saints did extraordinary magical things in the days before scientific investigation. I asked my niece to think about whether the stories are true, or what other possibilities might be. And so the ball is in her court and rolling.
"Some antitheists strongly believe that all atheists should be this way."
yep I am one of them.
Every atheist should seek to understand the world around him and should be moral enough to be an anti-theist.
"I don't think an atheist has to be an antitheist. But every atheist should know what kind they are and why."
Yea not every atheist has to be an antitheist, but should be to be a moral person.
Thus a moral atheist that has enough knowledge about the harm that the theistic baggage brings with it MUST be an antitheist.
Many reasons but mostly:
-The idea of mind control, that is OK to brainwash children without giving them the ability to analyze critically a religion before choosing it.(forced indoctrination)
-The proposal of a Totalitarian belief system as being a good system. Some kind of Divine Fashism.
-Division that it brings even between close family members. (wars)
-The torture that it gives to children who realize this absurdity, instead of finding support from their own parents, he/she has to either obey or be strong enough to fight everybody alone. It could make a childhood a living hell.(no friends to talk to, no family that understands you, etc..)
BASICALLY IT CREATES WORSE PARENTS that call their children rebellious because they disagree with them on a topic and every bad action that they do it is because they don't believe in god.
(Worse then if they weren't religious)
I think that whoever thinks that those actions are good things, should not consider himself a moral person.
What needs to be point out here is that what is being attacked here is the theistic concept and not the theists themselves.
Most theists do not know how immoral the theistic concept is.
It blinds them from it by removing the ability to criticize religious dogma by inventing a currency called Faith.
"What needs to be point out here is that what is being attacked here is the theistic concept and not the theists themselves."
I support the desire to be kind to others whenever possible. "Hate the sin but love the sinner" is the flip side of what you said. Yet it seems difficult to disentangle the belief from the believer. Where does the ideology end and the person begin? In other words, isn't a person, to some extent, the embodiment of what he or she believes? I'm not sure how to perform the surgery.