In a town north of Seattle, Washington, the Satanic Temple is trying to gain permission from the school board to start an after school club in an elementary school. This activity is in response to the establishment of a Good News Bible Club (a group that encourages little children to proselytize) being formed there.
Needless to say, folks in the area are coming unglued and leaping to great heights with all sorts of conclusions, not based on the tenets of the Temple, rather on the word 'Satan'.
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/satanic-temple-of-seattle-propo...
My hope is that this sort of news story will highlight this disparity so that it can be properly addressed.
Are there similar things happening in your neck of the woods?
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Additional question to the theists here: do you agree or disagree that the Satanic Temple should be allowed the same access given to the Good News Bible Club. Why / why not?
The satanic temple is awesome.... Smartest group I have heard of .... very tactfully get theists to rethink their positions.
I agree they should. In our current political climate no level of satire is too much. Praise Satan! Seriously , if tyrants like Jehovah can enter our political system why not a relatively benign deity like the Satanic Temples Satan!. He is actually a very nice guy.
Do they have a website where I can join them?
https://thesatanictemple.com
Yes! Thank you very much Cyber.
“Fundamentalist Christian organizations are trying to turn public schools into indoctrination camps for children. With millions in funding and a team of aggressive lawyers, they have been successfully eroding the separation of Church and State. Your donation will allow us to expand our campaign to undermine their efforts and enable us to continue to advance campaigns that protect religious pluralism and defend personal sovereignty.”
This was on their website. They're amazing.
Oh, wait, does this count as advertisement?
So long as no crimes are committed like human sacrifice. Party on Garth.
Read the tenets on their site. They are far more like Jesus than 98% of Christianity.
Their fundamental tenets are
* One should strive to act with compassion and empathy towards all creatures in accordance with reason.
* The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
* One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
* The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo your own.
* Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs.
* People are fallible. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it and resolve any harm that may have been caused.
* Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word
...and how do you defend that they are more like Jesus than 98% of christians?
@ Don Logan
I answered in the topic where you posed the original question. Here: http://www.atheistrepublic.com/comment/43080
Thanks
@ The Pragmatic, this is snipped from the post.
**I'm talking about what TST stands for and their actions, as such there is available proof mainly from news. By doing a google search for "The Satanic Temple news" and scrolling through the articles, a lot of news stories can be found. They have headquarters in several different cities in the US now and it's fully possible to go and check them out.
I'm also talking about what Christians often claim to stand for and their actions. Sure, **SOME** are good, tolerant, kind, people. But **MANY** threaten, mistreat, repress or discriminate others. They **WHO?** claim to want to protect life by making abortion illegal, while ignoring the 25,000 children under five that die each day (non-Christian children of course) NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY THIS PLEASE EXPAND?. And they **AGAIN WHO?** can do this while proselytizing for "coming to Jesus". They **GETTING TEDIOUS, WHO?** also collectively ignore the atrocities of their own clergy, in the form of doctrines against homosexuals, contraceptives, etc. But even worse, they **ONE MORE TIME, WHO?** ignore the massive sexual abuse of children happening in all over the world that clergy and practitioners are guilty of.
(Note: I'm not saying that only Christianity and Christians does this. Other religions are just as bad.) **DO OTHER GROUPS ALSO DO THIS?**
There is a constant flood of news showing both what I've mentioned about TST and Christianity (as long as you don't just watch Fox News).**
Would it be too much to ask for some clarity rather than broad generalisations and other logical fallacies (some/all, bad company...)
@ Don Logan
I'm having a very hard time understanding what you're asking for, since you're not very specific in some questions. I fully realize that I may have been unclear about a few things, but being clear is a two way street.
As for your very redundant and passive aggressive questions "**WHO?**", "**AGAIN WHO?**", "**GETTING TEDIOUS, WHO?**", "**ONE MORE TIME, WHO?**"
It's very strange to write like this within the same post, as if I was allowed to retort in between each question but didn't. It would suffice quite well with one question for "Who?"
So **WHO** did I refer to? Well, the previous sentence explained that:
Christians who "threaten, mistreat, repress or discriminate others".
Ministries and congregations all over the world abuse children, TV ministries trick kind gullible people out of their money, the Christian Right openly pushes for discrimination against non-heterosexuals and try to subvert science and education, etc, etc. Do you want the names and addresses of each individual? What exactly is it you're asking for?
I would urge you to watch the movie Spotlight ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1895587/ ). Clergy's and people throughout society who feel loyalty towards their clergy, keep trying to hide the evidence, subvert those who are looking for the proof or try to speak up, move priest to new parishes, and much more.
As I said, there is no lack of proof for this in the news. Take a moment to read the thread: http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/dark-side-theism-super... You'll find a few examples.
- "**DO OTHER GROUPS ALSO DO THIS?**"
Other groups? What do yo mean? Other groups than what? I already mentioned that other religions are just as bad, but that was an overstatement on my part. Then again, I compared specifically with "being Christian", so comparing others to the concept of Christ becomes unrepresentative.
- "Would it be too much to ask for some clarity rather than broad generalisations and other logical fallacies (some/all, bad company...)"
What does "(some/all, bad company...)" mean? What logical fallacies and where, apart from the mentioned generalization?
What exactly would you need for "clarity"?
I get that you might have gotten a bit ticked off by my post, but I'm not lying and I'm not just generalizing. As I said, there are a lot of good, kind Christians, but there is also a lot of rotten eggs. And the worst thing about religion, is that good, kind people can be horrible towards others because of their beliefs. The reason I started the topic "The dark side of Theism & Superstition", was to raise awareness about what is actually going on in the world. People who are part of a religion or a specific belief, seem to ignore the complete madness that is going on, probably because they want to keep their bubble of delusion intact.
Edited to add:
I missed this one:
- "NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY THIS PLEASE EXPAND?"
It means that if these children where in Christian areas, in Christian families, they would be outraged.
No, it is the some/many I disagree with, some of your posts are to do with "prove this/that" yet you say MANY [christians] "threaten, mistreat, repress or discriminate others" but that is just a smokescreen that you cannot support. I could just as well say that many white people in the USA threaten, mistreat, repress or discriminate others in their own country; and it means as much as your statement. Please feel free to remove USA and add Australia, North Korea, China, UK.... so give a figure about Christians threatening, mistreating, repressing or discriminating against others and temper them with those who do not threaten, mistreat, repress or discriminate others please.
@ Don Logan
- "No, it is the some/many I disagree with"
I get that you feel that way, but have you even tried reading through the topic I suggested?
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/dark-side-theism-super...
- "some of your posts are to do with "prove this/that""
Really? Where do I say "prove this" or "prove that"?
No offence intended, but I think your bias is getting to you.
@ Don Logan
- "I could just as well say that..."
Yes, of course. But my post that you came after, wasn't talking about the rest of the world, and it was not saying "no one else does bad stuff".
- "so give a figure about Christians threatening, mistreating, repressing or discriminating against others and temper them with those who do not threaten, mistreat, repress or discriminate others please."
Why? So you can feel better about being a Christian?
Apparently you didn't even read my reply. I'll say it again so perhaps you would do me the courtesy of reading it before you go for the choke hold again:
Ministries and congregations all over the world abuse children, TV ministries trick kind gullible people out of their money, the Christian Right openly pushes for discrimination against non-heterosexuals and try to subvert science and education, etc, etc. Do you want the names and addresses of each individual? What exactly is it you're asking for?
I would urge you to watch the movie Spotlight ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1895587/ ). Clergy's and people throughout society who feel loyalty towards their clergy, keep trying to hide the evidence, subvert those who are looking for the proof or try to speak up, move priest to new parishes, and much more.
As I said, there is no lack of proof for this in the news. Take a moment to read the thread: http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/dark-side-theism-super... You'll find a few examples.
I read your OP and the indonesian bumph, however it is highly subjective, try this as a foil to a western view (possibly eastern dependent on where you live)....... https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=r...
@ Don Logan
What's the point of asking me to produce proof, when you ignore my replies? I really try to be patient and use good manners, but you are starting to appear as if you are only motivated by but hurt, and have only come here to complain without listening to the replies.
It doesn't seem like you actually read my entire replies, because part of the answers seem to elude you. And when I ask you to take a look at the topic "The Dark Side of Theism & Superstition", you only read the OP that was written 2014 and since have had 668 more posts. There are hundreds of examples, where some show the problem I'm talking about. Some show the problem with other religions and with other superstitious beliefs.
You have made several accusations towards me now, and when I ask about these accusations, you just omit to answer. For example:
- "some of your posts are to do with "prove this/that""
I asked "where", not to put you on the spot, but because I'm actually interested to know if I write like that. I always want to improve my writing and I wish to avoid writing like you suggested that I have. (But I think it's your interpretation of what I wrote, not my actual words).
I have no wish at all to make you an enemy, quite the contrary.
@Don Logan
"No, it is the some/many I disagree with"
Obviously there can never be an accurate census of how many good or bad people are in each religion. That's not the point. The point is that all religions have great potential for evil because of the power that they endow on their leaders, and because it is difficult for people who have invested their faith (and money) in a religion to perceive, let alone fight against, the evil within.
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." --Steven Weinberg
We are getting closer Algebe, aren`t we? It is [perceived] power that has the potential for evil, no matter where it comes from. (cf. Jimmy S and the beeb, Donald T, Nixon, Clinton...)
@Don Logan
"power that has the potential for evil, no matter where it comes from. (cf. Jimmy S and the beeb, Donald T, Nixon, Clinton...)"
Agreed. But are there are any sources of power and evil older and more pervasive than the big religions? Trumps, Nixons, Clintons, Hitlers and Savilles will come and go, but the churches have held their power over people's minds for centuries.
Ammunition for one side or the other.....
Just found these....over on AtheistForums.....(Synchronisity or what....?) [stolen from Minimalist]
THORNTON, Colo. -- Court documents question whether church leaders in Thornton conspired to protect a fellow pastor accused of repeatedly sexually assaulting a 12-year-old girl.
http://kdvr.com/2016/09/20/court-documents-show-church-leaders-parents-d...
Church usher busted for raping child one year after police let him walk on similar attack
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/09/church-usher-busted-for-raping-child-one...
Georgia pastor arrested for raping 10-year-old girl at homeless shelter he founded
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/09/georgia-pastor-arrested-for-raping-10-ye...
Florida cops bust 22 suspected child predators in massive internet sting, including pastor and 46-year-old man who had meth and smoking pipe in his possession
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/florida-cops-arrest22-suspected-ch...
Just the four...but all from the 16th of this month....
Update:
TST has withdrawn its request to start an after school club at this school. So did the xtian group.
http://www.goskagit.com/news/education/satanic-temple-cancels-plans-for-...
Goal! Hurray for our team!
Thanks for sharing that one, CyberLN. Very good news!
Mission accomplished, thanks be to TST.
Well, waddayouknow...
Someone posted on Reddit, 17 hours ago: "This was passed out at a public school by teachers. WTF."
"After-School Good News Club - A great place for your child - Child Evangelism Fellowship"
I noticed this in the comments:
"There is a thing called the Young Skeptics that has been created in order to fight stuff like this (a less nuclear option that the Satan Club showing up)"
http://www.youngskeptics.net/
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